Anybody here biamping?
14 September 2007, 10:53 PM
#3
Not personally but I know man who did and he say it is very noticeable.
Depends on the AMP / Speakers / Cable but it should make a big diff to the depth / soundfield etc
Depends on the AMP / Speakers / Cable but it should make a big diff to the depth / soundfield etc
14 September 2007, 11:53 PM
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Just Curious... but what f*ckin amazing audio do you need to listen to that requires kit like this?
I just use my Goodmans radio headphones
They supply me good quality sound not just in the room I'm sitting in, but all around the house, garden and garage too. 
I just use my Goodmans radio headphones
They supply me good quality sound not just in the room I'm sitting in, but all around the house, garden and garage too.
15 September 2007, 08:02 AM
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Thanks.
Daz, thats a good idea. I was just thinking out aloud really. I keep reading about it on avforums and wasn't quite sure what it was all about and whether it really made any difference.
The other reason I'm thinking about it now is that it could change my choice of speakers, ie a better set that would sing with a biamp setup but be over the top with my current set up (which hasn't arrived yet)
Unclebuck, either you're into something or you are not. What more can I say? Its like why do you need to drive a 300BHP car with 4wd on the road? Because you enjoy it I suppose
Daz, thats a good idea. I was just thinking out aloud really. I keep reading about it on avforums and wasn't quite sure what it was all about and whether it really made any difference.
The other reason I'm thinking about it now is that it could change my choice of speakers, ie a better set that would sing with a biamp setup but be over the top with my current set up (which hasn't arrived yet)
Unclebuck, either you're into something or you are not. What more can I say? Its like why do you need to drive a 300BHP car with 4wd on the road? Because you enjoy it I suppose
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15 September 2007, 08:03 AM
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15 September 2007, 11:40 AM
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A single quad amp should be more than capable of driving most choice of speakers.
By biamping they will probably bring more control to the bass and even more clarity but the differences can be subtle and need time to be appreciated. That's why I would just get the one power amp for now. Then if you decide to get a second one you will actually hear that your money has been well spent.
By biamping they will probably bring more control to the bass and even more clarity but the differences can be subtle and need time to be appreciated. That's why I would just get the one power amp for now. Then if you decide to get a second one you will actually hear that your money has been well spent.
17 September 2007, 02:11 AM
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The beauty of bi-amping is it allows one more control between the low and high frequency drivers.
It boils down to that one is not 100% dependant on the crossover circuitry to make the speaker sound "right" without messing too much with the tone controls. Biamping is very handy if you have a set of speaker that need and touch less high or more low end just by tweeking the gain.
Its especially usefull if the speaker has multiple drivers (i.e 3-4) combined with crap crossovers (crap as in I don't agree with the sound they make ). However if the setup is good enough, one can achieve the same results with or without biamping. Its what works with that particular setup that counts.
(says the person who uses twin and earth for speaker cable
)
It boils down to that one is not 100% dependant on the crossover circuitry to make the speaker sound "right" without messing too much with the tone controls. Biamping is very handy if you have a set of speaker that need and touch less high or more low end just by tweeking the gain.
Its especially usefull if the speaker has multiple drivers (i.e 3-4) combined with crap crossovers (crap as in I don't agree with the sound they make
). However if the setup is good enough, one can achieve the same results with or without biamping. Its what works with that particular setup that counts.(says the person who uses twin and earth for speaker cable
)
17 September 2007, 02:42 PM
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The beauty of bi-amping is it allows one more control between the low and high frequency drivers.
It boils down to that one is not 100% dependant on the crossover circuitry to make the speaker sound "right" without messing too much with the tone controls. Biamping is very handy if you have a set of speaker that need and touch less high or more low end just by tweeking the gain.
Its especially usefull if the speaker has multiple drivers (i.e 3-4) combined with crap crossovers (crap as in I don't agree with the sound they make ). However if the setup is good enough, one can achieve the same results with or without biamping. Its what works with that particular setup that counts.
(says the person who uses twin and earth for speaker cable )
It boils down to that one is not 100% dependant on the crossover circuitry to make the speaker sound "right" without messing too much with the tone controls. Biamping is very handy if you have a set of speaker that need and touch less high or more low end just by tweeking the gain.
Its especially usefull if the speaker has multiple drivers (i.e 3-4) combined with crap crossovers (crap as in I don't agree with the sound they make
). However if the setup is good enough, one can achieve the same results with or without biamping. Its what works with that particular setup that counts.(says the person who uses twin and earth for speaker cable
)Thanks
17 September 2007, 05:23 PM
#13
The crossover Basically divides the sound signal into (3 way) Bass mid and treble. each driver will have its own x-over point into the next driver so all the drivers get the frequency's that they work best at (very basic description) so depending on the quality of the crossover it will make a huge difference to the sound, It isnt just the x-over points but also Phase and time alignment for each driver.
Hope thats simple enough,
Hope thats simple enough,
17 September 2007, 05:36 PM
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Brace yourself - its going to be a long one (....edit: during which time Power junkie jumped in and answered it 
)
A crossover in its most basic form is a passive circuit inside the speaker that filters the the low frequencies sent to the high freqency drivers (high-pass filter). That can be done by a simple capacitor (cheapy). It's there for two reasons, one to protect the high frequency drivers from damage caused from excessive bass frequencies (I've previosuly blown a magnet off a midranger caused by a faulty crossover ) the second reason is to optimise the sound reproduction.
More advanced crossovers will use more complex circuitry to make sure each driver gets it chosen frequency range. (i.e bass frequencies to the bass driver, mids to the mid ranger and highs to the tweeter ). They also allow to "tune" a speaker to resolve any irregularites in the speaker's frequency response caused by the cabinet design or chosen drivers, or it can give the speaker a tone more suited to the designer's wishes.
In its basic form, designing passive crossovers is quite simple basic maths. But it can get progressively complex when one tries to create a particuar sound or wants to tune a speaker to reproduce music in a desired fashion (I think thats what purists would call colouration ).
So to sum up yes, better speakers will have better crossovers (or at least they should do).
I should note that Bi-amping still uses the speaker's built-in crossovers, but one can adjust the gain of each amp to tune the system to one's personal taste.
Right then, single driver speakers....
Single driver speakers are what I call marmite speakers. Love em or hate em
The main goal of single driver speakers is that the main issue with a multiple driver speaker, is each different driver has its own frequency range. Unavoidably these frequency ranges will overlap with the other drivers used in the speaker.
The result is that the overall response of the speaker will not be linear and will be louder where two driver's frequency ranges overlap with each other and quieter where they don't. If viewed on a graph, it will show the volume will have peaks and dips through the whole frequency range, where it should stay constant with a gradual roll off at the lowermost and and uppermost frequencies. The use of crossovers are to help remove this problem (in addition to careful driver selection and cabinet design) .
A single driver speaker has no such issue, although like multi-driver speaker they can still get unwanted resonant frequencies depending on the design and material used for the cabinet. A crossover can also be used to "tune" this problem out. If the speaker doesn't have a crossover, that cannot be done and one will need to use the tone controls and/or graphic equalizer to compensate instead.
There are other more minor points about single driver speakers but I think that is the main one.
(....edit: during which time Power junkie jumped in and answered it )A crossover in its most basic form is a passive circuit inside the speaker that filters the the low frequencies sent to the high freqency drivers (high-pass filter). That can be done by a simple capacitor (cheapy). It's there for two reasons, one to protect the high frequency drivers from damage caused from excessive bass frequencies (I've previosuly blown a magnet off a midranger caused by a faulty crossover
) the second reason is to optimise the sound reproduction.More advanced crossovers will use more complex circuitry to make sure each driver gets it chosen frequency range. (i.e bass frequencies to the bass driver, mids to the mid ranger and highs to the tweeter ). They also allow to "tune" a speaker to resolve any irregularites in the speaker's frequency response caused by the cabinet design or chosen drivers, or it can give the speaker a tone more suited to the designer's wishes.
In its basic form, designing passive crossovers is quite simple basic maths. But it can get progressively complex when one tries to create a particuar sound or wants to tune a speaker to reproduce music in a desired fashion (I think thats what purists would call colouration
). So to sum up yes, better speakers will have better crossovers (or at least they should do).
I should note that Bi-amping still uses the speaker's built-in crossovers, but one can adjust the gain of each amp to tune the system to one's personal taste.
Right then, single driver speakers....
Single driver speakers are what I call marmite speakers. Love em or hate em
The main goal of single driver speakers is that the main issue with a multiple driver speaker, is each different driver has its own frequency range. Unavoidably these frequency ranges will overlap with the other drivers used in the speaker.
The result is that the overall response of the speaker will not be linear and will be louder where two driver's frequency ranges overlap with each other and quieter where they don't. If viewed on a graph, it will show the volume will have peaks and dips through the whole frequency range, where it should stay constant with a gradual roll off at the lowermost and and uppermost frequencies. The use of crossovers are to help remove this problem (in addition to careful driver selection and cabinet design) .
A single driver speaker has no such issue, although like multi-driver speaker they can still get unwanted resonant frequencies depending on the design and material used for the cabinet. A crossover can also be used to "tune" this problem out. If the speaker doesn't have a crossover, that cannot be done and one will need to use the tone controls and/or graphic equalizer to compensate instead.
There are other more minor points about single driver speakers but I think that is the main one.
Last edited by Shark Man; 17 September 2007 at 05:40 PM.
17 September 2007, 07:03 PM
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If you're considering bi-amping, one of the best reasons to do so is that you can put a crossover before the amps, rather than relying on a passive network in the speaker.
This works very well indeed, I'm led to believe - though I've not tried it myself. Talk to your hi-fi dealer first, though, since using one does require a speaker designed for it. There's no point having a really good, active crossover if you then feed the signal into the same passive crossover you'd have needed anyway!
This works very well indeed, I'm led to believe - though I've not tried it myself. Talk to your hi-fi dealer first, though, since using one does require a speaker designed for it. There's no point having a really good, active crossover if you then feed the signal into the same passive crossover you'd have needed anyway!
17 September 2007, 07:34 PM
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Hobby and partiatally related to work I did in electronics at college and uni (some of my project were audio related systems).
Two current projects are a pair of Transmission Lines and something more bizzare, being outdoor speakers made out of sewer pipe (when I eventually make the time)
18 September 2007, 12:06 AM
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We will see, can't be any worse than ported/reflex speakers though. Actually, I'm looking more towards TQWTs which is more of a horn than a TL. In my own admission I keep comming back to good old fashioned infinite baffles.
Last edited by Shark Man; 18 September 2007 at 12:11 AM.
19 September 2007, 08:59 AM
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I would if I could afford it! Must say I never even listened to it though because after entry level a CD/amp/leads/speakers was coming out at £6K+++ and spending £10k seemed easy!!
I suppose I could have tried sourcing second hand but I just don't have the time.
Can you list your kit I'd be interested to know.
Cheers
Deep
I suppose I could have tried sourcing second hand but I just don't have the time.
Can you list your kit I'd be interested to know.
Cheers
Deep