Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Just like litter droppers and rapists, now all speeders are proposed to be DNA sampled and added to the national Criminal database. One of the justifying reasons being that perpetrators of lesser offences go on to commit more serious crimes in later life.

If they want a national database with all our DNA samples on, then they should just say that. Putting a substantial amount of children on the database for mickey mouse offences (eg dropping a toffee wrapper) is just subverting the message. The national criminal database is meant to be just that, a database of criminals.

Before any do gooders come on and say what is the issue? You have nothing to fear if you have done nothing wrong, just think of the implications. The database may be hacked (probably will be given past competence of this gov), may be leaked, or may be sold (they say they have no plans to do this, but can just change their mind at a whim).

I can see a future where this sort of data is sold to all sorts of organisations, for purposes most of use would just not appreciate.

PistonHeads Headlines

ONE 234

i hear what your saying, and agree with most of it, unfortunatly we live in a world of deception, and this would be one way of cutting back on terrorisim, and imagration problems.
it would also help to keep most of us safe from "rapists etc" because they could very quickly brought to account if there details were held on a database.
your concern as to what if the database was hacked or sold on? to what end? how could someone benifit from your DNA profile?
i am personally in favour of this idea, and yes before anybody asks i have my details recorded already.(not by choice, by means of a criminal record), i think it was saturday night feavor, by the bee gees.
only my personal thoughts, i think this will be a contraversial subject.
the no's will definatly be, the criminals/rapists/etc & the human rights brigade.
the yes's will be the "ive got nothing to hide/worry about mob"
i feel that i am in the middle of these.

Bodgit

I hear about this today and heard at the same time that foreign nationals arrested under the terrorism act do not have to give DNA samples. That makes motorists worse than terrorists.
To get round this make sure that you have some explosives in your car and if you are caught for speeding just plead you are a terrorist and hey presto no DNA has to be given.

PeteBrant

Just with regards to this.

How, exactly, would having DNA on record, stop someone blowing up, say, a plane?


Suicide bombers, by definition, haven't got a history of doing so.

Anyway, back on topic.

There is no way I am giving a DNA sample without a stunningly good reason.

carnivorous

they could always just do it like the americans...you go to your GP cuz you're ill, he takes a urine sample and passes it on without you ever knowing.

oooooh the conspiracies.....

ONE 234

it wouldnt stop anyone from "blowing up a plane" it would make and assist the authorities in tracing and controling "known suspects" and/or in the detection of crime (terrorisum) that might prevent someone "blowing up a plane"
and you would not have a choice in "giving a DNA" sample if it comes law.
if you get a criminal record (and you can so easly nowadays) you dont have a choice, it can be forcably taken.
can i ask why you would object to a swab being taken from the side of your mouth?
we are forced to obey the laws of our land, including the wearing of seatbelts/crash helmets, also the forceable taking of fingerprints, so whats the biggie with DNA?? its only a profile, you dont object to someone taking a "personal photograph" (thats you, and only you).

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Later being sold on and used by companies to profile you for things such as insurance ie risk of cancer.

My stance is I can see how a database may help in cases but it's my DNA and I should have the right not to give it up unless there is a valid reason for me not to. there is no relation between my DNA and speeding unless they find a gene that makes people a habitual speeder.

ONE 234

totally untrue, ALL persons held under the provention of terrorism act, have there DNA taken.

i have worked in anti-terrorism for the last 20 years.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Jack?!!

PeteBrant

How?

How does having someones DNA on record enable you to do this any better than you do now?

Well, It's not law,.... yet.
Sure, I don;t agree with a central DNA database for everyone. I don't thrust the government with the safeguarding of such information. I don't trust the data protection act, and I don;t trust some idiot police **** up not to land me in prison for 25 years because they have "DNA evidence" that I did something.
Yeah, the difference is, with a photograph, is that is is staggering simple to see when someone has made a mistake somewhere down the line an assigned the wrong photo with the wrong person. The same cannot be said for DNA evidence.

carnivorous

jesus Peter, you DO like a good discussion, huh?



i agree tho....

PeteBrant

I just have my beliefs and if someone asks me to clarify them...I make them sorry they ever asked

WRX300MAN

. . . I think this once again demonstrates the fact that all coppers are w*nkers!

ONE 234

"there cant be a mistake with DNA evidance (sic) but there can with photographic evidence, you cant have your DNA "assigned" to a wrong person?? the evidence contains DNA #1 (for example) and you have DNA #2 ergo it was not you, thats the beauty of DNA .
and if your surgesting that DNA could be "planted" to indicate you, then this can be done with anything, including fingerprints/hard evidence/witnesses/ etc."

ONE 234

OMG a brain doner.

PeteBrant

No I'm not suggesting it could be planted.

Of course mistakes can be made, they alreadty have been, you should know this if you have worked with DNA evidence for the last 25 years.

At somepoint, someone has to enter the data in to a database that DNA sample A matched person A. What if they match it to person B by mistake?

Another example, and was highlighted on panoramam not so long ago. A man was arrested due to the fact DNA evidence was found at the scene of a crime - It turned out it was due to his DNA being on a letter he has sent.


DNA evidence is all well and good, when it helps solve a crime that would otherwise be unsolvable. But, in those cases you take a sample from your suspect, and match it to the scene to augment your case. Having a national DNA register serves no purpose other than to further erode our liberties.

Bodgit

How about this as a mistake.

They collect dna from the crime scene and they take a sample from you. Somewhere due to an error probably human. Your DNA sample is marked up as the crime scene one. They then re test you and there will be a match.
I would also guarantee that when you contest this you will be told DNA does not lie.

ONE 234

ok, come on i know your more intelligent than this.
IF it (the DNA) was assigned to the wrong person, he would just say in court "it wasnt me guv" and " i demand to have the DNA evidence re looked at" this would then clear him, as it would clearly not be his profile, you cant "replant DNA" or change it on a computer.
also i havnt worked with DNA for the last 25 years, i have been in counter terrorism for 25+ years.
the example you quote " panarama" shows the system works....it came out that he was innocent.

what do you guys want?? be honist, a safe place to live and work, and bring up your familes, or.............................
a state frightened to death of terrorism..we need to act now, and DNA profiling is a huge step forward, im not saying its "the way" or "civil liberties this etc" im saying its a big help in reducing terrorism, and reducing serious crime (rape peadofillia etc) you must be with me on that?
were not saying DNA is the way to catch speeding motorists , but in the bigger picture / big bad world, it sure would help.

good luck.

ONE 234

again thats it in a nut shell.....................IF a mistake is made...you can prove it wasnt you by retesting/looking at the profile

fact: the DNA at a crime scene is taken and wont change (it cant even if wrong data is entered)

your DNA is taken/cross referenced, if you wernt there then it wont show......you can cross examine when you get to court, thats why its called cross examination...to state you couldnt have been there because you wernt, and if they recheck the evidence they will see that the "wrong information was entered" (as you say could happen) DNA at the moment works for you....NOT against, its all in your favour.

automodellistagt

i dont have any problem with it. If just ONE rapist gets caught becuase he dropped litter 10 years ago and they wouldnt have had his DNA otherwise then its worth it.

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

I think everyone is getting a little paranoid here.Most people wont have any DNA taken as most speeders will either get their NIP through the post or will be ticketed at the side of the road.In both instances DNA wont be taken.The only time that DNA will be taken,is if you are arrested for an offence.Yes,you can be arrested for any type of offence now,but unless you have committed another offence or are giving false details etc etc,DONT WORRY...

DevilHimSelf

You have, then you have not learned much now have you!

Have you had your DNA sampled?

I seriously doubt it!

911

Why is the UK sliding towards all this?

Will having dna stop bombings rape muder?
No, that is because the crime has to happen before anything can happen.
Much of the police work is reactionary.
They see a speeder. They get evidence (Gatso etc) they prosecute and they solve a crime .
Good statistics come election time.

So they now have dna for the new racy criminals (I have points).
Great. Presumably i will be 'followed' to see if my criminal virginity is broken and I'm rampently heading towards bigger nastier things.

No.
I now drive a bit slower.
I probably drive those stuck behind me to wanting to murder me as they now seem to want to drive over/past/through me like mad!
I'm travelling at 30 mph in a 30 because there will be a little man with a speed camera in one hand and a swab in the other.

Another job for the tax payer (who now has a criminal record) to pay for.

This is all madness.
Authority gone bonkers infiltrates un-checked everywhere.

Incidentally, I believe all police men/women are not w@nkers, most are hard working risk taking professionals who mainly do a **** job to save our souls, but the Government are the plonkers.

An we vote them in!

Graham

55 years old/middle class and pissed off with the UK.

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

Heres one for you...Not so long ago,women in the south of Birmingham were being raped by a chap with a stanley knife.This happened over a long period of time.No evidence left at most of the scenes as condom worn.But as the offences got worse,semen was left at the scene.However,as the chap had no previous convictions and routine DNA taking was not conducted-no matches on the database.Then one day,chap gets locked up,proactively by the old bill,for breaking into a van.DNA taken-which then leads to a match on database to rapist who gets 14 years.
NOT a back slapping exercise,but i dont see any errosion in society towards a big brother state if this is the net result.I think its a compromise that i would be prepared to live with. All hypothetical of course...

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Bring back hanging - that'll make the suicide bombers think again!

ONE 234

please read my previous posts above YES my DNA is on the NCIS database, it has to be to eliminate me from crime scenes etc and in the work my "dept" does in Iraq & Afganistan.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

My issues are two fold.

1) The government wants a national DNA database for everyone. They have tried to take DNA samples from children in primary schools en masse (have a search for old topics) It is only when parents kicked up a MASSIVE fuss that some kids escaped this. If the gov wants a national database, they should say so. Don't try and hide behind stupid science, such as litter droppers may go on to commit more serious offences.

2) The actual presence of a DNA database to me posses a big risk if that data gets into people's hands who should not have it. Insurance companies being one. If you remember the film Gatica, we could end up in a situation like that. Insurers get your DNA (maybe without your knowledge) and thats it, you cannot get insurance for all sorts of things.

Your DNA may be stolen from the database, then used by criminals to clone your identity. The more "foolproof" data these criminals have, the harder it is to prove your innocence. Example, the massive fraud that was perpetrated in Petrol Stations. They captured your PIN and card details and then used them. Many banks refused to refund people as they claimed they had not kept the "foolproof" PIN number safe. It was not the fault of the innocent person filling up with fuel, there was no way they could have seen the cameras filming their pin numbers (not to mention that some were security cameras that you would expect to be there).

Anything on a computer can be hacked in some way. I just dread the day when the police come crashing through my door accusing me of something I have not done. With evidence like this against you, you truly are "guilty until proven innocent".

It was bad enough when a copper came round recently when someone had copied my plate. I have a Silver Impreza, the car with my plate on was white...and they still gave me a hard time (2 hrs questioning). It was so f**king obvious it was not my car I should have stamped it onto the plods forehead


(rant mode off )

ONE 234

i agree with a lot of what you have to say, but correct me if im wrong but i did not think that you could determine if someone was susceptable to cancer, or had any other health risks from DNA?? are you sure your not talking about RDNA (different set of building blocks)
DNA (excuse the spelling), stands for dioxie ribo nucleric acid, and that only shows your genetic table, and not heridatary disease?

im sure someone with more time and no life will search the web and find out the in's and out's.

im going for a sauna

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

dunno if DNA shows info about disease or not tbh. It is also difficult to know what may become possible with DNA in the future. If the cat is let out of the bag, it will be nigh on impossible to put back.

I appreciate its use, and at the moment it is of little use to anyone other than for its intended purpose. After all, who wants to pretend to be a sex offender? It is when it is expanded to have a lot of other information attached to it that it becomes amazingly valuable. For the DNA to be of use it will need last known address to be stored, that in itself is amazingly useful information for marketing companies.

I just don't trust the gov to not sell off anything of value. You can even now get access to the DVLA information for a bit of cash and the pretense of needing the information for legitimate purposes (eg just pretend to be a parking enforcement firm and you can get addresses for people's plates). That is something that used to be not possible.

Alan MaC

You know the chap that tried to drive the Jeep through the doors @ Glasgow then torched himself??

Apparentl, he has been complaining about the Scottish Food!!

Haggis, Neeps and these things you call Tatties!!


The Nurse said, "what do you expect, this is the Burns Unit!"

Mind how you go.

Regards

Alan MaC