Big Brother cameras to track millions of innocent drivers
19 July 2007, 06:16 AM
#1
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Big Brother cameras to track millions of innocent drivers
19 July 2007, 07:51 AM
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As I read it, all it means is that the police will have access to what is already being filmed.
Most of us would think that the police would use this footage anyway. They simply do not have the resources (and probably never will) to 'track all motorists movements'. They will simply just use it, like cctv, to see the movement of crime suspects.
So, a non-story really.
Most of us would think that the police would use this footage anyway. They simply do not have the resources (and probably never will) to 'track all motorists movements'. They will simply just use it, like cctv, to see the movement of crime suspects.
So, a non-story really.
19 July 2007, 08:01 AM
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Yep - no big deal - the roads / motorway bridges and gantrys are littered with cameras monitoring traffic flow etc and as Dracoro says it's just that it seems the police are going to look at it a bit more now.
Fine with me! A much more sensible idea than black boxes in every car.
Plus if it tracks a million cars, and one of them is a terrorists, tracked and stopped as a result of these cameras then they're worth their weight in gold.
Fine with me! A much more sensible idea than black boxes in every car.
Plus if it tracks a million cars, and one of them is a terrorists, tracked and stopped as a result of these cameras then they're worth their weight in gold.
19 July 2007, 08:25 AM
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THe difference between what is being proposed, and what is currently the case is that police will have access to live footage from congestion charge cameras etc, whereas at the moment they have to request access of records through court orders.
THe net impact on the average person is zero, your car is being filmed regardless, all that is changing is the person potentially watching feed
THe net impact on the average person is zero, your car is being filmed regardless, all that is changing is the person potentially watching feed
19 July 2007, 11:40 AM
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It is all down to a matter of principle really. The point is, do you mind the authorities being able to know exactly where you have been and what you are doing at all times-that is what it is leading to!
Les
Les
19 July 2007, 11:42 AM
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Personally, yes I do mind. But I think in this instance the impact is minimal. All that will happen is that the police can tell what time a given car entered the city, and what time it left, in real time rather than requesting tapes.
19 July 2007, 11:46 AM
#7
as other people have mentioned this will no doubt lead on to more logging / surveillance, just another erosion of your privacy.
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19 July 2007, 11:49 AM
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the net impact is that there will be computers watching the live feed, these will no doubt be put to use plotting and logging the movements of vehicles as you go about your daily life.
as other people have mentioned this will no doubt lead on to more logging / surveillance, just another erosion of your privacy.
as other people have mentioned this will no doubt lead on to more logging / surveillance, just another erosion of your privacy.
19 July 2007, 11:59 AM
#9
How does it lead to a further erosion of privacy? It's already in place. The computers are already logging registrations as they go in and out of the city. All that has changed is that the police can access this information immediatly rather than having to wait for it.
19 July 2007, 12:13 PM
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They arent going to be looking at every car, they arent going to care or even have the resources if they did care.
They are going to be looking for specific cars based on intelligence. If they want to know if car reg Y324 TUD enters the city they can know in real time, rather than wait a few days. I don't see how tis affects anybodies liberties any further than they are already infringed.
19 July 2007, 08:59 PM
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...but they aren't just tracking "you", they are also looking at people around you. Thus, if you happen to drive alongside or behind a suspected terrorist, you get a flag on your record by "association". If that happens a few times, then you may yourself get targeted.
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
19 July 2007, 10:58 PM
#14
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Anyone who cares about being tracked has something to hide IMO ..... I would LOVE to track the Pikeys and Gypsies and nail them for every crime they commit 
Bring it on and ID Cards as well - let's get on with it ... all this liberty crap is just that, CRAP!
Bring it on and ID Cards as well - let's get on with it ... all this liberty crap is just that, CRAP!
19 July 2007, 11:09 PM
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I don't like this kind of stuff. Basically the masses who conform and just step out of line ever so slightly great jumped on. The people who just buck the whole system get away with it.
You know the people who steal a car, use someone else's legitimate plates to drive on. No insurance etc etc. These cameras don't detect that kind of stuff. All they do is send fines to the poor person who had his plate cloned.
It is a slippery slope, I don't like it
You know the people who steal a car, use someone else's legitimate plates to drive on. No insurance etc etc. These cameras don't detect that kind of stuff. All they do is send fines to the poor person who had his plate cloned.
It is a slippery slope, I don't like it
19 July 2007, 11:24 PM
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...but they aren't just tracking "you", they are also looking at people around you. Thus, if you happen to drive alongside or behind a suspected terrorist, you get a flag on your record by "association". If that happens a few times, then you may yourself get targeted.
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
19 July 2007, 11:33 PM
#18
...but they aren't just tracking "you", they are also looking at people around you. Thus, if you happen to drive alongside or behind a suspected terrorist, you get a flag on your record by "association". If that happens a few times, then you may yourself get targeted.
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
Then, if this doesn't come up with enough evidence to arrest a few suspects, they will crank up the criteria and start to flag "associates of associates".
Bear in mind that there is a theory that you are only 6 associations away from every single person on the planet - lets just hope that the 90 days detention without charge doesn't get past the House of Lords!!!
mb
Personally I don't have a problem with this, thanks to our police and security services we don't know the half of whats going on at the moment, if they need this for pacific instances then fine, I'm guessing they will need to have some decent evidence to hold someone for that amount of time, or they'll be in the **** later, if it takes that long to gather Intel to break a cell then let them have it, better than having a bomb go bang up our *****.
As for the original post, I think it sounds fine, its the use of more technology like trackers in cars that you should worry about..I for one will not have on in my car.
19 July 2007, 11:42 PM
#19
do some research on the subject, you may not like what you find.
19 July 2007, 11:43 PM
#20
20 July 2007, 12:27 PM
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20 July 2007, 12:41 PM
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full name
other names by which person is or has been known
date of birth
place of birth
gender
address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom
the address of every other place in the United Kingdom or elsewhere where person has a place of residence.
Identifying information
a photograph of head and shoulders
signature
fingerprints
other biometric information
Residential status
nationality
entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave
Personal reference numbers
National Identity Registration Number
the number of any ID card issued
allocated national insurance number
the number of any relevant immigration document
the number of their United Kingdom passport
the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation
the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom
any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom
the number of any work permit relating to him/her;
any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;
the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs
the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
Record history
information falling within the preceding paragraphs that has previously been recorded about him/her in the Register
particulars of changes affecting that information and of changes made to his/her entry in the Register
date of death.
Registration and ID card history
the date of every application for registration made by him/her
the date of every application by him/her for a modification of the contents of his entry
the date of every application by him/her confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes)
the reason for any omission from the information recorded in his/her entry
particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued to him/her
whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not
particulars of every person who has countersigned an application by him/her for an ID card or a designated document, so far as those particulars were included on the application
particulars of every notification given about lost, stolen and damaged ID cards
particulars of every requirement by the secretary of state for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to him.
Validation information
the information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of his entry or for the issue of an ID card
the information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without changes)
particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application
particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register
particulars of every notification given by that individual for changing details in the register.
Security information
a personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his/her entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
a password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code
questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
Records of provision of information
particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual's entry has been provided to a person
particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion
other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.
other names by which person is or has been known
date of birth
place of birth
gender
address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom
the address of every other place in the United Kingdom or elsewhere where person has a place of residence.
Identifying information
a photograph of head and shoulders
signature
fingerprints
other biometric information
Residential status
nationality
entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave
Personal reference numbers
National Identity Registration Number
the number of any ID card issued
allocated national insurance number
the number of any relevant immigration document
the number of their United Kingdom passport
the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation
the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom
any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom
the number of any work permit relating to him/her;
any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;
the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs
the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
Record history
information falling within the preceding paragraphs that has previously been recorded about him/her in the Register
particulars of changes affecting that information and of changes made to his/her entry in the Register
date of death.
Registration and ID card history
the date of every application for registration made by him/her
the date of every application by him/her for a modification of the contents of his entry
the date of every application by him/her confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes)
the reason for any omission from the information recorded in his/her entry
particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued to him/her
whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not
particulars of every person who has countersigned an application by him/her for an ID card or a designated document, so far as those particulars were included on the application
particulars of every notification given about lost, stolen and damaged ID cards
particulars of every requirement by the secretary of state for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to him.
Validation information
the information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of his entry or for the issue of an ID card
the information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without changes)
particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application
particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register
particulars of every notification given by that individual for changing details in the register.
Security information
a personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his/her entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
a password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code
questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
Records of provision of information
particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual's entry has been provided to a person
particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion
other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.
20 July 2007, 01:36 PM
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Then to pay for the extra cameras required to plug the gaps they will sell the data to Tesco. Then when you drive into town they will call your mobile with todays special offers ... aaaargh !!! They might call your home number, then your wife will find out that you are driving into town and she didn't know. I may have nothing to fear, but I may want to keep certain things hidden from others 
20 July 2007, 01:49 PM
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Then to pay for the extra cameras required to plug the gaps they will sell the data to Tesco. Then when you drive into town they will call your mobile with todays special offers ... aaaargh !!! They might call your home number, then your wife will find out that you are driving into town and she didn't know. I may have nothing to fear, but I may want to keep certain things hidden from others
That list was from the BBC website proposing the dataset that will be held on the ID database for each individual. Now putting aside the appauling track record of poor security in governmental IT projects, they have already stated they are considering selling on the data they have harvested to commercial organisations to fund the ID card system.
So before anybody says they think ID cards are a good thing, I think it's only fair they show they have nothing to hide by providing the above personal data about themself on here so we can take their claim seriously.
20 July 2007, 03:56 PM
#26
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https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...hlight=liberty
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As a free and innocent person I object to records being kept and/or used by anyone on my movements. If I am under suspicion and they have acquired the correct legal permissions then fair enough, but if/when this becomes active it will be a sad day for personal liberty in this country. I am no terrorist, but in a couple of seconds I can think of ways to by-pass such a system if I want to use a vehicle to perpetrate such an act. It will stop no such thing, and the terrorism excuse is pathetic justification for totalitarian clandestine monitoring of the populous.
Politicians are voted in to represent us and manage the country on behalf of us all. They seem to lose sight of that fact the closer they get to London, and begin feathering their own nests with backhanders and lining themselves up for profitable jobs once the political career has gone t!ts-up. I wonder who will be on the board of directors of the private ANPR Monitoring Company in 10 years time
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...hlight=liberty
As a free and innocent person I object to records being kept and/or used by anyone on my movements. If I am under suspicion and they have acquired the correct legal permissions then fair enough, but if/when this becomes active it will be a sad day for personal liberty in this country. I am no terrorist, but in a couple of seconds I can think of ways to by-pass such a system if I want to use a vehicle to perpetrate such an act. It will stop no such thing, and the terrorism excuse is pathetic justification for totalitarian clandestine monitoring of the populous.
Politicians are voted in to represent us and manage the country on behalf of us all. They seem to lose sight of that fact the closer they get to London, and begin feathering their own nests with backhanders and lining themselves up for profitable jobs once the political career has gone t!ts-up. I wonder who will be on the board of directors of the private ANPR Monitoring Company in 10 years time
20 July 2007, 09:19 PM
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21 July 2007, 12:14 PM
#28
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https://www.scoobynet.com/non-scooby...hlight=liberty
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...hlight=liberty
As a free and innocent person I object to records being kept and/or used by anyone on my movements. If I am under suspicion and they have acquired the correct legal permissions then fair enough, but if/when this becomes active it will be a sad day for personal liberty in this country. I am no terrorist, but in a couple of seconds I can think of ways to by-pass such a system if I want to use a vehicle to perpetrate such an act. It will stop no such thing, and the terrorism excuse is pathetic justification for totalitarian clandestine monitoring of the populous.
Politicians are voted in to represent us and manage the country on behalf of us all. They seem to lose sight of that fact the closer they get to London, and begin feathering their own nests with backhanders and lining themselves up for profitable jobs once the political career has gone t!ts-up. I wonder who will be on the board of directors of the private ANPR Monitoring Company in 10 years time
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...hlight=liberty
As a free and innocent person I object to records being kept and/or used by anyone on my movements. If I am under suspicion and they have acquired the correct legal permissions then fair enough, but if/when this becomes active it will be a sad day for personal liberty in this country. I am no terrorist, but in a couple of seconds I can think of ways to by-pass such a system if I want to use a vehicle to perpetrate such an act. It will stop no such thing, and the terrorism excuse is pathetic justification for totalitarian clandestine monitoring of the populous.
Politicians are voted in to represent us and manage the country on behalf of us all. They seem to lose sight of that fact the closer they get to London, and begin feathering their own nests with backhanders and lining themselves up for profitable jobs once the political career has gone t!ts-up. I wonder who will be on the board of directors of the private ANPR Monitoring Company in 10 years time
Les
21 July 2007, 12:35 PM
#29
Brilliant!All this stuff is OK - as long as everyone involved is honest and just and decent! - if (
) people can hack in or persons with access to the data are... say... err... - dishonest and collect data for 'private use' then there can be problems...
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