Abdabz

Four in cartoon protest are jailed
Press Association
Wednesday July 18, 2007 1:23 PM


Three men have each been sentenced to six years in jail for soliciting murder during a demonstration against an anti-Islamic cartoon.

Mizanur Rahman, 24, Umran Javed, 27, and Abdul Muhid, 25, were convicted during separate Old Bailey trials. Judge Brian Barker, the Common Serjeant of London, said their words had been designed to encourage murder and terrorism.

Rahman, Javed and Muhid were jailed for six years for soliciting murder and three years concurrently for stirring up race hate. Abdul Saleem, 32, was cleared of soliciting murder at his trial but convicted of inciting race hate. He was jailed for four years.

They were arrested after 300 protesters marched to the Danish Embassy in central London in February last year.

The police made video recordings of speeches and slogans during the demonstration against the cartoon, which was first published in Denmark and then reproduced in other European countries. The cartoon depicted the Prophet Mohammed as a terrorist. It caused outrage in the Islamic world where images of Mohammed are never used.

Rahman, of Palmers Green, north London, was convicted of soliciting murder and inciting race hate after calling for soldiers to be brought back from Iraq in body bags.

Javed, of Washwood Heath Road, Birmingham, was recorded on video by the police shouting: "Bomb, bomb Denmark. Bomb, bomb USA." He was found guilty of soliciting murder and stirring up racial hatred and was said to be one of the leaders of the protest.

Muhid, of Whitechapel, east London, was found guilty of two charges of soliciting murder, leading a crowd in chanting "Bomb, bomb the UK", and having placards calling for annihilation.

Saleem, of Mellish Street, Poplar, east London, was convicted of stirring up race hate.

He was said to be the cheerleader and was heard to chant: "7/7 on its way" and "Europe you will pay with your blood".


IMO - A reasonable deterrent to others and I am pleased with the outcome

PeteBrant

Indeed.

If I owned a paper, I would have printed images of the Prophet Mohammed every day from that point forward, because it's my ****ing right through freedom of speech.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

The first of many I hope.

Anyone preaching hatred should be jailed, not given freedom to encourage/condone the terrible acts that can occur as a consequence.

stilover

**********

harry007

Not if its insulting another religion mate!

what would scooby do

Only fictional characters so don't understand why they're so upset?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

not a bad result but when will the idiotic justice system move from concurrent to consecutive sentencing??????

6 years for x and 3 years for y! but he still only serves 6 years so sentence y is irrelevent.

plus they won't serve the full sentence anyway.

OllyK

That's not how freedom of speech works thankfully.

harry007

Because ask any muslim, if he has a picture of the prophet himself? either cartoon or artistic painting etcc. They will all say no. Its considered wrong in Islam to have any made up picture etc of god or the prophet himself. Because none of us know what they look like. Therefore its a clear dis respect for some news paper to go ahead and make there own version, and publish it! It would be like putting sunglasses and baggy jeans on a picture of Jesus( No offense intended, just sharing the view) So if it happened to any other religions prophet or god, that religion too would stand up and be angered

Just my view

PeteBrant

Which has happened in countless films, we have seen Jesus depicted in various forms over the year. He even appeared in an Jerry Springer musical effing and blindin. God has appeared in various guises, in various films.

Of course all of this has happened without anybody being arrest, convicted and jailed for inciting violence. Until now, until it was Islam that was the target of a comic strip that actually defended the religion.

See that's how it is in our society, freedom of speech to express yourself. Of course inciting hatred or violence of a given religion, is wrong. Howeever pointing out the ridiculous aspects of a given religion or any subject for that matter is entirely proper, and of course, legal.

lestippp

How many religions do you see demanding people be bombed and murdered just because of a picture, it's pathetic, people acting like animals in the name of faith

Many wars and world issues are generated on the back of religious hatered, if any of these gods did exist do you think they would approve

Ban religion and create a new faith for the world called humanity

Bye the way do what you like with a picture of Jesus or any other godly image, I won't be heading out on a mission of reprisal on innocent people who are in no way linked to it and anyone who behaves in this manner should be brought to justice on the spot

Glasgow airport was a recent target by a group of cowards and how would you feel if you and or your family were innocently caught up in the next attack... not so straight forward now is it

PeteBrant

See, this is where you are wrong, mate. I can make a comment on any religion I see fit. I can call it wrong, perverted anything I like. What I can't do is incite hatred of it - There is a difference.

Islam is a crazy religion that is outdated, morally corrupt and has no positive benefits. It is backwards, devoid of tolerance and has no place in modern society.

I can follow this up with a quick sketch of Mohammed

0
/|\
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See, I can say these things because i live in a free society, I can hold these beliefs and I have the absolute right to do so, just like anyone else has the right to completely disagree.

What I don't have the right to do is threaten to kill anyone that sees things differently.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Hear hear. Good post, Pete.

Alcazar

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Over-sensitive brainwashed idiots then. As if it matter in the grand scheme of the world what some silly paper does yet look at all the fuss. It's pathetic and like kids in a playground. Still gives people an excuse to want to spread hatred and blow things up.

Stainy

Never mind Gordon Brown...Pete for Prime Minister...bang on

OllyK

But I am not a follower of Islam, so why should I be bound by your rules?

The Zohan

Spot on Peter and you beat me to it, your is much more elequent mind

PeteBrant

Just to confirm, my leftie PC values will resume just as soon as this thread is over

Having said that, I dont think freedom of speech is necessarily the particular remit of any given part of the politcal spectrum.

If you live in the UK you have freedom of speech, simple as that. Its what our grandparents gave up almost everything they had to preserve.

It's something I feel quite strongly about.

As someone famous once said:

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

swampster

iTrader: (1)

Yep almost certainly out on licence in 3!

Markus

Whilst there are some fruit and nutbar christian groups out there (I seem to recall Louis Theroux visited some loonies in a recent show), I don't recall any of them staging a march and inciting hatred and soliciting murder because someone drew a cartoon of Jesus, or made fun of him in a film. I think the Monty Python team have not been killed because of The Life of Brian, and Kevin Smith is still here after Dogma. Actually on that point, death threats and a massive campagin against the film by christians was salted to happen upon release. However, nothing came of it. If I recall correctly, Kevin actually attended one of the protests against his film, incognito, and was interviewed by reporter about the protest. Think his sign said "Dogma is ****e", but the protestors said that was vulgar or something like that. All in all it was a storm in a teacup.

I think the sentences are far too lenient, should be at least 15 years, with no chance of parole for at least the first 10 years.

If you wish to protest about something then fair enough, but calling for the bombing of countries, is that really needed, would that solve the problem, no, I think not. I think anyone who was carrying banners/signs advocating the bombing or muder of others during this march should have been arrested and given similar sentences.

Does anyone know if these chaps where covering their faces during the protest? If so then it proves they are nothing more than complete and utter cowards. If you're going to protest, and do so in a harsh manner, then have the ***** to show the world your face and not hide behind a mask.

swampster

iTrader: (1)

The thing about Freedom of Speech is that you can never truly have it without anarchy. You can't just go around declaring the first thing that comes into your head, there'd be no such thing as slander or libel if that were the case..

The 1998 Human Rights Act, which guarantees our Freedom of Expression under Article 10 says:
Which basically says, yep you have the Freedom of Expression subject to certain restrictions as dictated by whoever is in charge at the time (as well as any previous applicable laws).

If you don't believe me go down to your local police station walk in the foyer, and start telling everyone you see that they're all a bunch of ******* *****.. don't run away and see what happens!

OK, that's probably an extreme example, but you get the idea.. the crunch comes from the "duties and responsibilities" statement in the Act. You have Freedom of Expression so long as generally speaking that expression is based on fact, or not an incitement to hatred or violence, or doesn't harm the State in matters of security etc. Anything outside of those responsibilities could (and in this day and age.. will almost certainly) lead you to criminal and/or civil action.

Interestingly until the Human Rights Act came into force there was no constitutionalised law regarding of the Freedom Of Speech in the UK, it was more of an institutionalised notion.

mart360

IF pictures of Mohamed are never used, how do they know what he looks / looked like?

Glad they got sent down, its about time too.

Although have you heard the crackpot judgment on the TB infected cow?

its allowed to live (religious symbol) yet the girl who went to court with her chastity ring lost

now which is more dangerous?


Mart

The Zohan

Hypothetically of course;
What if Mohammed is really a woman, that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Wel Jesus could be black, infact almost cetianly is dark skinned, that would really pi$$ of the christian nutters in the US of A, what would they say about that i wonder

Aaquil

These individuals got exactly what they deserve...their response to those pictures was extreme and totally wrong.

As a Muslim our religion consists of respect and honour of all the Prophets whether that be Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Noah or Muhammad. Depicting any Prophet in our religion is incorrect as it can lead to a form of idolatory and 'man worship'. To mock Muslims is one thing but to depict the Prophet in an insulting manner as a bomber like the evil scum who do such evil acts is unfair as our Prophet referred to people who carried out such acts as 'dogs of hell' (no virgins for them then!) and people who will 'leave the religion' and that their action will not benefit them. The Prophet Muhammad was good with the Muslims and non Muslims alike, encouraged good ties with relatives, parents, children and spouses. He also strongly encouraged to be good to neighbours Muslim or non Muslim and encourage to treat people how you would like to be treated. All this is in complete opposition to the evil of extremism, suicide bombing, kidnapping, forced marraiges, racism, partisanship, lack of intergration, lack of learning a countries language and culture, bad habits and manners, oppressing women etc. All of this is the

"...crazy religion that is outdated, morally corrupt and has no positive benefits. It is backwards, devoid of tolerance and has no place in modern society." [Quoted from PeterBrant]

However, this is not the religion sent with the Prophet Muhammed it is the religion of the backward, asian cultursitic, evil people and needs to be CUT from our society as it is like a aggressive malignant cancer.

Protesting is not even allowed in Islaam due to the harm it causes to the people in terms of distruption, delays, waste of resources and police time etc.
Let alone what was going on by those people at the protest with their placards and evil chants. They got exactly what they deserved and should have got more.

By the way I am a practising Muslim I have a beard, wear one of those long shirt (Thobe) sometimes, pray and fast and am a dentist. My wife covers, yet she drives, goes out with her mates, teaches English (ESOL) and wears the trousers.

Please next time you see Muslims like us please think we are not all evil, bomb strapping, non Muslim hating, backward extremists.

PeteBrant

Just to be clear Aaquil - I wasn't suggesting Islam is any of the above things, I was just illustrating the right to have an opinion of a thing. I have never met a Muslim personally that was anything other than a normal pleasant human being.

Abdabz

Couldnt have put it better myself

Aaquil - that too is an excellent post - very well put, and I am way more terrified of dentists than I am of any extremist

Leslie

Although I think it is unecessarily bad manners to deliberately insult another person's honest beliefs as long as they don't involve any kind of harm to anyone else, I also don't think it is acceptable to start a riot over what someone has done or said. Quite reasonable to verbally protest about it though.

Les

Aaquil

PETERBRANT

I was not quoting you in a negative light at all... I intended to illustrate that what you see of Islaam for the evil individuals like the ones sent to prison and their characteritics represents a:

"...crazy religion that is outdated, morally corrupt and has no positive benefits. It is backwards, devoid of tolerance and has no place in modern society." [Quoted from PeterBrant]

However, their way is far from the teachings of Islaam and the practises of good, practising Muslims. Many of which have beards (the men of course well I hope so!) and cover up (the women and the men to a certain extent).

Unfortunately, the image of Islaam today most people see is that of a corrupt, brutal and evil way of life and as I said the people involved in this must be surgically removed from society because they are like a cancer.

I am sorry if me quoting you gave you the impression I was attacking or rebutting you as that was not intended.

ABDABZ

Imagine how my patient feel when they first come in to see a Dentist that looks like an extremist!!!! I'm sure they sh*t themselves far more than they normally would!!!!

I remeber when my wife was having an emergency op the Anaesthetist asked my wife "So what do you do?" (He was an old asian educated bloke with one of those speaking the queens English in a pakistani accents) my wife said: "An English teacher".

I thought here we go me next..."And what do you do sir?" I mumbled: "Dentist."

He said with the look of pure surprise on his face: "DENTIST!"

Then one of the nurses said: "Do you always get that response?"

I said: "Yeah, if you think that's bad you should see their faces when they walk into my Surgery!" She laughed her head off.

Never judge a book by its cover....I work in Rochdale so you're safe if you stay away.