speedking

I just don't understand what pressure they are being put under to 'confess' to illegally entering 'Iranian' waters. Do they not understand the importance of what they're saying?

Surely they went to war on the understanding that they may be killed or maimed. Why are they not taking all the pressure and telling the truth according to the UK, that they were operating in Iraqi waters. Or were they actually in Iranian waters Did the coordinates shown on TV match with the Royal Navy coordinates of where they were captured?

Maybe they're talking in code and denying what they're saying? This will be explained after their release. Seemed to be too smiley to be under much pressure to me!

KiwiGTI

They are certainly breaching all the guidelines given to soldiers to adhere to while under interrogation (contained in the Geneva convention)

The ability of an enmy to interrogate and use the weakness of the captive is greatly enhanced once they get more than name, rank, serial number etc. As we see now it is being fully exploited by the Iranians.

Nimbus

I was intending to post a thread on this as well. Now I don't for one minute pretend to to know what "pressure" might have been applied to these service people, but one of those chaps on the news yesterday seemed very happy at stating his apology and saying that there were in the wrong place. I hope that when they are released we'll get an explanation of this apparent week will...

PeteBrant

We have no way of knowing what kind of pressure they are under. These people are proffesional soldiers, they would not willingly discredit the UK government. We don't know what they are being told. It could be that the Iranians have told the that the British government have admitted they were in Iranian waters and they are simply confirming it. THey could be facing torture or any manner of pressures.

Do you really give any credence to what they are saying on TV and in letters?

OllyK

I'd be more concerned that Iran may decide to put them on trial using the evidence they have given on TV and then jail / execute them as a result.

moses

chris L the mod posted this earlier, its a very good read and hilarious in a way


Guardian Unlimited | Comment is free | Call that humiliation?

SJ_Skyline

Given the right set of circumstances, professional soldier or not, anybody will admit to anything - "Read from this script and you get to keep the use of your legs". It's pretty simple, no?

PeteBrant

Quite. And these aren't marines/special forces. THey are predominantly sailors. THey won't have been given any interrogation training.

BlkKnight

I thought (that bit if the) Geneva convention only applied if the two parties were at war?

moses

according tae this theirs been a shift in speech by the british and iranians, so something good may happen


Iranian TV: 15 British sailors confess to illegally entering waters - Haaretz - Israel News

Markus

I'd say this is fairly accurate. These people are just like you and I, they aren't special forces, so they would be very easy to break, again, just like you or I.

Lets say someone nabbed you and a few freinds off the street and told you to read a statement, and look calm and happy, otherwise, if you didn't pull off a convincing act they would not do anything to you at first, but would torture your friends, making you watch, or possibly make *you* torture them for your "failure", then the same would be done to you by your captors.
In that situation I think many of us would roll over and do whatever they wanted.

Nimbus

I thought some of them were marines?


Edit: according to the BBC, 7 are sailors and 8 are marines.

moses

lol so did i


i cant wait till they interview the guy wae the blue shirt, he is my hero lol he can eat for britain, u mind the one tearing intae his food, brilliant, guy rocks, he must be a fellow scot

monkeysan

they are saying this because some dirty f**king arab has a large gun at their head - simple as!

moses

u and yer feeble brain, u mean persians not arabs a totally different people lol


u need education

PeteBrant

BBC NEWS | UK | Captured UK officers shown on TV

moses

some good news coming oot of their, nice one, at least their getting somewhere and no mair interviews coz they said the brits have softened their tone, damn i wanted tae see the blue shirted hero . lets all chip in and buy him a months supply of curries and kebabs and stuff when he gets back God willing, he looks so hungry

lozgti

Why didn't Iran just guide them out of 'their' waters or suggest they 'move on'.Why the need to go through all this palava?

I don't care what job they have in the services I wouldn't expect them to be weak.As far as I understood it,you simply said nothing.

The whole thing is odd

OllyK

It's diplomatic posturing.

SJ_Skyline

They are pawns. Iran is using them as bargaining chips to have sanctions lightened and focus attention away from their nuclear programme. Either that or I'm getting too cynical these days....

Markus

The general rule is, I believe, name, rank and number. I think the reality is a little different when you are tied to a chair an a couple of lads beat the living snot out of you, or worse, or there is a threat of that happening.

I'm sure that some of the lads might think themselves "hard" but are far, far from it right now. Only the foolish and actors in movies would stand face to face with their captor, spit in their face and say "you'll get nothing from me".

monkeysan

education was traded for mechanic work LOL

i'm not a racist man - however when we put our people lives on the line to protect a nation/region then i fail to see why we dont just let them get on with it and kill each other instead


my best mate from school was one of the MP's killed in Iraq last year, blows a hole in entire communities and i dont see it lasting

Dark

iTrader: (1)

But maybe they were in Iranian waters and it's the British government that's telling porkie pies.... !

So the sailors and marines are just telling it as it is.

Mark

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Standard interrogation techniques are thing like sleep deprivation, being kept disorientated, forced into uncomfortable positions, hooded, white noise etc.

These are techniques we use on our own soldiers so they can be prepared. However there was a big outcry when the same tactics were used on captured Iraqi soldiers. Utter twaddle.

these guys are not strong enough to resist this stuff. They have families and it wasn't a surprise to see the recent mum in the bunch being first to crack and talk about family.

SAS on the other hand... anyone read Bravo Two Zero? heh

5t.

KiwiGTI

I don't think they are really being brutally forced into doing anything. I reckon they are being treated very well, obviously confined to wherever they are but I believe otherwise they are very comfortable.

It would be very easy then for the Iranians to get them to do what they want. There is certainly nothing in their body language to suggest fear or co-ercion.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Pants. The first one looked like someone had a bucket of soapy frogs ready and waiting for her.

5t.

bugsti

The whole episode is baffling to me.

I don't believe the Navy would stray into the sovereign waters of another nation. Therefore, why did the troops (and there were Royal Marine Commandos amongst them) submit to a foreign force without a fight.

StickyMicky

what would happen if a few of our special forces went in, cracked a few heads and got them out

would this start a proper war?

SJ_Skyline

Probably, and it would be a proper war that nobody would win and we would end up paying for.

Jerome

British servicemen and women actually follow orders most of the time. There will almost certainly be rules of engagement for that region. They would not be allowed to prevent their arrest using force, because that would cause a massive diplomatic nightmare at an already tense time.

The Royal Marines are also renowned for being thinking soldiers, not gung-ho grunts like many yank forces.

As far as I'm aware, the sailors/marines are not being given access to British consular staff. Everything they are being told, is coming from the Iranian authorities. There could be any number of good tactical reasons why these sailors are saying what they are. It also gives them the opportunity to give valuable coded messages.

Apart from anything else, if I were them, I'd be ****ting myself. I wouldn't blab straight away, but if I was being treated well, and I got asked to do a bit of television and read from whatever script I was given, I'd do it.