Holy Ghost

we've had another short burst on governmental failures [and there are more failures than successes] ... but what about the tory failures in the party's position of official opposition? how many open goals to punish incompetence and deviousness do you need?

in the last week, just think cash for honours, supercasinos and the rise in child poverty.

what's gone wrong with the opposition?

Brendan Hughes

Suggests a process of movement from right to wrong - flawed assumption from outset

David Lock

IMHO it's mostly because they don't come up with a set of actual policies. Still trying to be nice to everyone so one day it's the greenies, the next the gay lobby. Families are great but it's fine not to be married. Immigrants -well err, um. Europe - well may be. Hug an effing hoodie; yeah right

They just need to get a grip but they won't. But I need to declare my dislike of Cameron. Bright, obviously, but I don't want someone that has been to Eton as I don't think he could ever relate to ordinary people. William Hague's the man

MattW

I have to agree David. I'm blue through and through but have an intense dislike of Cameron to the point I'm not really interested. All the green BS gets my goat and no matter how much TB pisses me off I have more respect for him.

Edited to say - If he wins, i hope he has a very strong and experienced Cabinet to rein him in a little.

Holy Ghost

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[slaps forehead] no brendan. the effectiveness of parliamentary opposition as a check and balance to governmental errors in policy has decreased over several years and is arguably now at its lowest ebb. from a "right" way of doing things to a "wrong" way of doing things.

Brendan Hughes

But recently, wasn't this a result of an absolute majority by NL, rather than Tory choices? True that now things are a bit more even...

Am not really qualified in this area, so forgive me if I only bring unfunny quips to the discussion.

MattW

Brendan, I thought in the UK system the majority party had more seats than all other parties combined, so in effect it is always as you say.

Brendan Hughes

No- absolute vs relative majority. Usually the ruling party seem to have 30-40%, more than the individuals but less than the combination. It's then up to all the rest to gang up to block something. If more than 50%... well, then "democracy" undergoes a re-interpretation

MattW

British Governments and Elections Since 1945

Since the war only in 1974 has there never been an absolute majority. Seems I had the theory and practice mixed up

Holy Ghost

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matt, david

fair points. i think a lot of it also comes down to fear within the tory party. by and large they are simply afraid to draw any line and stand on it because of the 'nasty party' tag that still plays really well within westminster, the media, pressure groups and [significant] sections of the public.

hence the wholesale re-branding and a rather flip-floppy centrist position where they're trying to be all things to all people - but without nailing their colours to the mast. it simply lacks bite and feels a little paranoid. to be honest, it concedes that the only way to play the game is by NL's rules. i think they see a bold return to a clear - but modernised - conviction position as being too high risk. but that's exactly the sort of political manoeuvre that gains public respect and creates the clear water of difference.

i share your view david about hague. he has a razor sharp intellect, a down-to-earth simplicity and is one of the great parliamentary speakers of recent times. he also jacked in £1m annual earnings to return to the shadow cabinet. but the 'tory-boy' tag and all that associated rubbish killed him once and probably would again.

having met cameron and seen him speak [away from media cameras], he's very impressive - but there's a lot of sizzle and not much evidence of the steak yet. politics is a red meat business - and the fridge looks a little empty at the moment.

Flatcapdriver

Interestingly, I was on a course a few weeks ago with a woman based in their Parliamentary Selection Office and asked her the exact same question. Her reply was basically, why should we bother attacking Labour when its so clear that they're self destructing anyway?

The problem with this attitude as you've pointed out is that they're failing the electorate by their non-participation in the democratic process plus (in my opinion) they won't win any votes for failing to point out Labour's mistakes as voters won't make the connection between Tory and Government thus people are more like not to bother voting.

Mind you, its true that the electorate deserves the Government it gets.

MattW

Still can't see past Labour at the next election, too many sheep.

Leslie

It certainly seemed to me that ever since NL won power, the Conservatives have just seemed to sit back and let things happen without any significant form of protest or even making sure that the people realised what was actually going on. We have had to work it out ourselves as we have seen what has been done and gradually the ultimate goal has started to come into view. Their support for the attack on Iraq was unbelievable to me and the fact that they have done nothing worthwhile to highlight NL's gross errors and murky behaviour is truly incredible.

As FCD says, if they just assume that NL will screw themselves out of re-election, they are taking the risk that we see no discernible difference between them and NL and people will not bother to vote or will vote for UKIP or even the BNP which will let NL back in.

It is pretty apparent how unpopular this lot is at the moment but that does not mean that they will not succeed again on the votes of the vast beaurocracy that they have employed and who want to keep their jobs at all costs.

I do not support any particular party, only the one I think will serve our country the best, and I shudder at the thought of yet another NL triumph. I think it is reprehensible that the Conservatives have put up such a negative attitude towards opposing them. The remarkable "Dave's" efforts in jumping from one side to another in an attempt to ingratiate himself with everyone does nothing to fill me with confidence in him. He really is a very close copy of Billy Boy's actions during his rise to fame.(infamy!)

We need a party which has the strength of its convictions and will speak out against all the nonsense which is going on and is prepared to fully expose what is happening behind the scenes. We also need a real leader who will say it like it is without fear or favour!

Les