ScooBStu

The following petition has been set up to try and stop joe public using the term Engineer when he probably isnt (i.e. when he is a mechanic - not a mechanical engineer). Although I didnt write it and acknowledge it could be written better and spell checked I think it is a good petition so if you feel strongly please sign up.

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Professional Status For Engineers and Engineering.

I am sure this will open a can of worms with people who think they are engineers (Mechanics and gas fitters). Flame suit on.

Cheers

Stuart

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

It's a very good idea, but I think this is a social thing rather than something any government has any control over.

As an engineer - a real one - it does annoy me to see the term misused to mean anyone with any level of technical training. I suspect, however, that most of the people who actually matter know the difference.

The petition creator advocates only permitting people who are members of a professional institution to call themselves Engineer. I can't agree with this point; in my field of Engineering (electronics, commercial products), membership of the IEE is the exception rather than the rule. In fact, in my experience, it's usually a bad sign if an employer asks about it.

If ever there's any doubt, I describe myself as a 'design engineer' - a term which, though ideally redundant, is at least harder to confuse with 'technician', 'fitter', 'installer' and similar.

Does anyone feel that there's some stigma attached to the word 'technician'? How about 'nurse'?

Nigel H

Oh here we go again. As a C.Eng MIEE it always amused to see Engineers whinging on in IEE news about lack of status, confused with telly bashers etc.etc. This petition is a total waste of time and won't change a thing - it is a social thing I agree. When people ask me what I do (train/signalling design) for the most part they haven't a clue what it involves or how complex it is. So I don't try too hard now and just accept it for what it is.

On the rare times I want to make the point (like car insurance renewal) I use the term Chartered Engineer which does seem to imply some more status

pslewis

Indeed, this has been an issue for many years - all and sundry calling themselves Engineers.

In my day a Chartered Engineer meant something, now that most Technicians can achieve the status it has been watered down so much that it isn't worth fighting for anymore. Degrees were tough in my day ..............

PeteBrant

I am a PCB Design Engineer - on any form that requires your job decription to be compartmentalised into a specific sector, I usually choose "Professional"

As to what anyone else thinks my status is, I really couldn't give a toss - The only person that really matter sin that respect is the person paying my wages - And they pay me an Engineers salary.

pslewis

What CAD system do you use?

PeteBrant

At the moment, Mentor Graphics (Board Station, BSXE, Fablink, Board Architect etc) - Although this could change in the near future if Mentor don't playing ball with maintenance agreement charges

pslewis

Same here - Mentor Graphics or PCAD for our PCB work.

Unigraphics and Autocad for our Mechanical Enclosures.

AFRIKANZ

Am on route to be Chartered and believe that this should be the path for a "real" Engineer. It's the recognition by an institute like, say, IMechE only that should allow people to call themselves Engineers..........

Clarebabes

I had a boss who always went on about this... He was a proper engineer and called everyone without a degree in engineering a fitter...

suprabeast

Now that PCAD isn't being supported anymore its gonna have to be time for a change soon ay!

suprabeast

I think it is a fair point to be honest. If work hard for the qualifications you've got. It like when my mum calls out the "washing machine engineer". He's nothing more than a technician replacing damaged parts.

ScooBStu

I take it you mean that you design the circuits, calculate the signal impedances, choose which layers the signals are on etc and then lay out the boards? In my experience of people who do this job it is purely a draftsman - I design electronic boards and instruct a drawing office on how to lay them out including all of the technical issues that went with it. As a professional engineer it is not worth the company paying me to do the layouts when they could pay a draftsman and I could be designing something else.

I guess they probably class themselves as engineers but they are not really. Obviously the company I worked for where this was my job may be structured differently to yours (and you may do some design unlike them) but they were the kind of people who called themselves engineers and clearly were not.

Steve vRS

Half of the problem is that there is no social standing to being a fitter or technician - which there should be. It's a better occupation than most people realise.

Then there wouldn't be the need to upgrade the titles to Engineer.

It's a similar problem as everyone being a manger now e.g. customer Service Manger - shop worker!

Steve (BEng (Hons) MIMechE CEng).

PS. E-petitions are a waste of time as it's too easy to tick a box - everyone in authority knows this and so ignores them!

ru'

Can't see what the issue is myself.

engineer - definition of engineer by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

1. One who is trained or professionally engaged in a branch of engineering.
2. One who operates an engine.
3. One who skillfully or shrewdly manages an enterprise.
tr.v. en·gi·neered, en·gi·neer·ing, en·gi·neers 1. To plan, construct, or manage as an engineer.
2. To alter or produce by methods of genetic engineering: "Researchers . . . compared insulin manufactured by bacteria genetically engineered with recombinant DNA techniques to the commercial insulin obtained from swine or cattle" Fusion.
3. To plan, manage, and put through by skillful acts or contrivance; maneuver.

Lots of people can be called an engineer. When I was at college I worked at Gateway supermarket, picking up trolleys (and till work). On one shift I was the only trolley picker-upper so I was the 'Chief Trolley Engineer'.

Jerome

I regard myself as a Software Engineer, but most people don't what that means and assume I do something involving an oily rag.

I normally call myself an IT Consultant (another abused term) or Computer Programmer to the hard of thinking.

Abdabz

Absoultely 'ru. We employed "Process Engineers" within our Change Management team at a well known mobile phone company before we changed "Engineer" for "Analyst"...
They engineered processes hence the term. Then we just brought the role title to analyst because it fitted in with the rest of the business.
The only thing a "real" engineer can keep in their title that is theirs is the letters acquired from the degree.

KiwiGTI

Whatever, we all want respect, yada yada yada...

We don't even need "engineers" any more , we are now an advanced economy that is based on services. We don't make steam trains or aircraft (soon) anymore.

KiwiGTI

And I'd call him an old-fashioned ******.

KiwiGTI

He's probably more of an engineer than most of these degree based engineers.

KiwiGTI

Oh, and while I'm at it - there is nothing at all in the law that can stop you from calling yourself a doctor or lawyer. (Anyone can be a lawyer, but you must always inform your clients that you don't have a law degree)

hades

But anyone can (and many with no clue do) claim to be an IT expert . . .

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

KiwiGTI, are you just trolling or do you genuinely believe that manufacturing industry, and the people who make it possible, are of so little value?

How would you propose bringing wealth into this country, if not by creating products that have value and then exporting them? You can't make money just by moving it around, the wealth has to be created somewhere.

I have a proper degree from a respected university, and ten years' experience designing - not just building - commercially successful products. Don't you understand why people in my position feel aggreived that the guy who climbs up a ladder and nails a satellite dish to a wall is given the same job title? Do you actually even understand the difference?

KiwiGTI

No, not trolling, I am genuinely serious. The title you have means nothing, it's the job you do that is important. Anyway, engineer is a very old-fashioned title and I personally don't think that it shouldn't be restricted. Many other titles have also been devalued. Does the Chief Executive of a large corporation feel belittled when he talks to a Sky Sales Executive to order a new package of channels?

Stop being so insecure and get on with your jobs. The real reason engineers aren't afforded any respect is because this country doesn't emphasise academic achievement, the same reason mathematicians or chess players aren't cool. Engineering is also mind-numbingly boring to the average person, unlike medicine or law, because they deal with humans.

Anyway, if you design stuff then surely you should be called a designer, architect, analyst etc.

BTW : Manufacturing only represents 13% of the economy these days.

ScooBStu

This quote just shows how little you really know about engineering. Of course we need engineers. Absolute ***** - What is the point in making comments when they are so bloody lame.

Steve vRS

I've been thinking and I don't care.

Anyone can call themselves an engineer, but only professional engineers can call themselves Chartered Engineers!

Does anyone need a Passport countersigned? Normal 'engineers' can't so that but Chartered ones can

Steve

samcowrx

So in your eyes, who can really call themselves an engineer? who is allowed to? what qualificaions/experience must these people have?

Minitrue

The irony of this post isnt lost on everyone Peter.....

Mot

ps. degrees used to be far easier than they are now!

ScoobyDoo555

Well, I'm a Sound Engineer. By definition, I engineer a sound for a client.

There's been this arrogance surrounding the term "Engineer" since the dawn of its creation.

Civil, Mechanic, Electronics engineers (usually the greater prejudice is from the "older" professions).

Bollix to you basically. Move with the times!!

Dan

KiwiGTI

OK, straight to the point. Why do you want to prevent other people using a title other than for your ego.