Titanic Sinks Christianity?
02 March 2007, 09:26 AM
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Titanic Sinks Christianity?
An intersting story in the Telegraph about Titanic directors James Camerons claim that caskets containing the bones of Jesus, Mary Magdalene and their son Judah exist in Jerusalem.
Of course the church will cry foul and that this is not evidence at all, quite ironic as they peddle all sorts of dodgy "bits of the cross" and the shroud as evidence of Christ............
Geezer
Of course the church will cry foul and that this is not evidence at all, quite ironic as they peddle all sorts of dodgy "bits of the cross" and the shroud as evidence of Christ............
Geezer
02 March 2007, 09:28 AM
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Had a discussion about this on another forum about a week ago. Quite an interesting theory, Id recommend reading Cross Bones but Kathy Reich IIRC. Its a good story based on a similar theory. 
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02 March 2007, 12:49 PM
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03 March 2007, 11:02 PM
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An intersting story in the Telegraph about Titanic directors James Camerons claim that caskets containing the bones of Jesus, Mary Magdalene and their son Judah exist in Jerusalem.
Of course the church will cry foul and that this is not evidence at all, quite ironic as they peddle all sorts of dodgy "bits of the cross" and the shroud as evidence of Christ............
Geezer
Of course the church will cry foul and that this is not evidence at all, quite ironic as they peddle all sorts of dodgy "bits of the cross" and the shroud as evidence of Christ............
Geezer
evil against him
as a muslim we believe they tried tae kill him but they failed and God saved him and raised him up and he didnt marry
a few yrs back a jewish guy fabricated alot of stuff and everyone fell for it till they caught the guy and his lies
this woz documented in the bbc and also channel 4, very good programmes, their target seems tae be jesus christ all the time
03 March 2007, 11:05 PM
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mate the hatred from prophet jesus pbuh hasnt stopped among the scribes and pharisee's yet
u remember the controversy aboot the passion of christ film, it had nothing against the jews as a whole but only the truth aboot how the rabbi;s and scribes hated him and spread evil aboot him,even if muslims dont believe in the crucifiction but we believe in the messiah and it just saddens me the hatred of the scribes and pharisee';s and their kind r still open and will dae anything tae insult jesus pbuh etc etc
u remember the controversy aboot the passion of christ film, it had nothing against the jews as a whole but only the truth aboot how the rabbi;s and scribes hated him and spread evil aboot him,even if muslims dont believe in the crucifiction but we believe in the messiah and it just saddens me the hatred of the scribes and pharisee';s and their kind r still open and will dae anything tae insult jesus pbuh etc etc
03 March 2007, 11:24 PM
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some islamic view on jesus pbuh
45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
60. The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.
------------------
110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
111. "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
112. Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
113. They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118. "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
also the last part above is when God calls jesus pbuh as a witness against those who idolized and worshipped him and brings him as a witness against the fabrications and lies aboot him being God or the begotton son, when God doesnt beget and jesus woz a messenger of God as the ones before him and prophet mohammad peace be upon them all
also
16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"
24. But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
25. "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
26. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!
38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
39. But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe!
45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."
54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
60. The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.
------------------
110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
111. "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
112. Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
113. They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
114. Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
115. Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118. "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
also the last part above is when God calls jesus pbuh as a witness against those who idolized and worshipped him and brings him as a witness against the fabrications and lies aboot him being God or the begotton son, when God doesnt beget and jesus woz a messenger of God as the ones before him and prophet mohammad peace be upon them all
also
16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"
24. But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
25. "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
26. "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!
38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
39. But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe!
03 March 2007, 11:28 PM
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on crucifiction
as a lesson for the generations and for the righteous people among them, God saved jesus and showed the hatred among the scribes and pharrisses, learned scholars and rabbi's and made tae appear tae them they killed him tae show the hatred they had for him and the evil stuff they accused him for and God saved him and no one could even lay a finger or harm jesus pbuh
4:156-159 "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."
as a lesson for the generations and for the righteous people among them, God saved jesus and showed the hatred among the scribes and pharrisses, learned scholars and rabbi's and made tae appear tae them they killed him tae show the hatred they had for him and the evil stuff they accused him for and God saved him and no one could even lay a finger or harm jesus pbuh
4:156-159 "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."
03 March 2007, 11:36 PM
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I feel as if a Jehovah's Witness has walked in without ringing the doorbell - didn't have chance to slam the door on that one !! 
Gareth
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03 March 2007, 11:39 PM
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04 March 2007, 12:31 AM
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here is an alternative view on the events geezer posted aboot
On the Contrary: "Lost Tomb of Jesus": The Talmud Makes its Way to the Discovery Channel
On the Contrary: "Lost Tomb of Jesus": The Talmud Makes its Way to the Discovery Channel
04 March 2007, 11:08 AM
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mate the hatred from prophet jesus pbuh hasnt stopped among the scribes and pharisee's yet
u remember the controversy aboot the passion of christ film, it had nothing against the jews as a whole but only the truth aboot how the rabbi;s and scribes hated him and spread evil aboot him,even if muslims dont believe in the crucifiction but we believe in the messiah and it just saddens me the hatred of the scribes and pharisee';s and their kind r still open and will dae anything tae insult jesus pbuh etc etc
u remember the controversy aboot the passion of christ film, it had nothing against the jews as a whole but only the truth aboot how the rabbi;s and scribes hated him and spread evil aboot him,even if muslims dont believe in the crucifiction but we believe in the messiah and it just saddens me the hatred of the scribes and pharisee';s and their kind r still open and will dae anything tae insult jesus pbuh etc etc
Les
05 March 2007, 09:50 AM
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Slightly related to this topic, I watched a relatively interesting programme last night, again by Mr Cameron, about Exodus.
They were scientifically explaining the plagues described in Exodus, and point to archeological evidence proving that it did happen.
The guy presenting, (some Jewish scholar, Cameron made the odd comment) seemd to be using the scientific explanations of all the plagues to justify the Exodus story, but to me it just reinforced the thought that people who wrote the bible used historical fact of the time to strengthen their basically unfounded story about the Jews being the chosen people etc.
The science was very interesting, if true, however.
Geezer
They were scientifically explaining the plagues described in Exodus, and point to archeological evidence proving that it did happen.
The guy presenting, (some Jewish scholar, Cameron made the odd comment) seemd to be using the scientific explanations of all the plagues to justify the Exodus story, but to me it just reinforced the thought that people who wrote the bible used historical fact of the time to strengthen their basically unfounded story about the Jews being the chosen people etc.
The science was very interesting, if true, however.
Geezer
05 March 2007, 10:07 AM
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They will never find the bones of Jesus Christ. I believe there is a secret society similar to that in the DaVinci code who know the whereabouts but will never say. Only a very select few truely know where they are.
05 March 2007, 10:52 AM
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05 March 2007, 11:09 AM
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I've heard a few conspiracy theories in my time, but how on Earth did you reach this particular conclusion?
05 March 2007, 11:37 AM
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I think he's referring to the story of the Kinght Templar and a supposed mountain in France that they are supposed to be in. Notice alot of 'supposed's in there!
Geezer
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