jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Didnt know how to word the title but here is an explanation.

My dad is currently in hospital and has been there since christmas day, he is basically having low blood presure problems which means when he stands up, he is having black outs. He has had a few tests done (heart monitor for 24hrs and a ct scan on the brain) both of these have come back as okay.

Since being in hospital, he is getting very very confused and is also having hallucinations. The consultant who is allegedly looking after him is on about getting a pychopherapist (think thats the type) to assess his mental state. Basically the consultant is saying that my dad would be better in a home, however they are suggesting this without getting to the bottom of the condition that hospitalised him in the first place. If he goes into a home in his current physical state, we reckon he will suffer as he wont get the observation that he currently gets in hospital, and my dad being my dad will try to get up and walk which will result in him blacking out and therefore collapsing/falling. He had been in hospital about 5 yrs ago when he tripped down some stairs and broke a rib and his mental state became similar to this then, however when he was better and released home within 2 days he was back to his normal mental state.

Now the background is out of the way this is what this post is about.
My dad owns his own home outright with no mortgage, and also has substantial savings in a bank account. My sister who looks after his finances for him, is worried that if they put him into a home (which we have stressed is not the answer) then they will take away his house and sell it, and also take all of his savings. There was a thread a while ago, but I cant find it and I think that was along similar lines. We are both wondering if there is a way that we can transfer the savings into a different account so that will not get touched or if there is a way we can protect the house. I have heard of something about a 7yr rule where social or whoever can check transactions etc (house signed over, money transfers etc) just wondering what the government/social can do, and if there are any ways around it.

Coffin Dodger

First up sorry to hear about your Dad being unwell.

From the sound of things so far, he seems fit apart from the low blood pressure issue. Why can't they get to the bottom of it. I'd be having a serious chat with the consultant and if he/she can't come up with an explanation start seeking a second opinion (go private?). I'd have thought low blood pressure is just as treatable as high blood pressure with the right cocktail of drugs

As for his mental state, think I'd be similar if I'd been in hospital since Christmas, sodding hate the places. No reason to be put in a home though. Who's to say the hallucinations and confused state aren't to do with the low blood pressure anyway. Certainly can't be helping?

Unfortunately this seems like another example of the **** poor state the NHS is in, if they can't sort the problem easily then just bury their heads in the sand and hope it goes away

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

it is a poor state of affairs, the consultant isnt even based at the hospital where my dad is and she only sees him once a week. He does have other doctors seeing him though every day.

They originally wanted to send him home after a few days as they took him to an assessment centre whenre he had to make a cup of tea! He passed this as fortunately at the time he didnt blackout. I have suggested him going private (not to him but to family and the consultant) but the consultant basically said there would be no difference in the care only accomodation (single room instead of a ward)

To be honest he isnt very fit, he is 75, overweight (about 14st10 and 5ft 7) suffers from angina and has various other ailments. The doctors did give him something but it made his blood pressure rocket when stationiary (think 240 over 160 was one reading) but again as soon as he stood up it dropped on this occasion to 50 over something. Other times no readings have been able to be taken as it was that low. The angina spray dose has been reduced as this can lower the blood pressure, however it is rare for him to use that anyway.

So anyway back to the actually post, does anyone have any info with regards to social taking his house and savings etc?

TonyG

I can give you my experience on this as my Dad had to go into a care home a few months ago after a prolonged bout of illness. A bit of background about my Dad. He was assessed by Social Services as not being able to look after himself and would be classed as 'at risk' if he came home (he lived with me) even with the available care package as I'm out at work all day and there is no-one else in the house.
As for care, there is a limit of assets/savings above which Social Servces won't contribute to care home costs. In Nottingham, that's £20 000, and the figure includes property and savings of the person in the care home. Below this limit, Social Services will contribute on a sliding scale, and once assets drop below (IIRC) £12 500 will pay the maximum of something like £280 per week.
Money/property can't just be given away as this is seen as deprivation of assets, and Social Services can treat them as if they are still owned by the person in care. There's more rules around this (including time limits), and I found that the information on the Age Concern website (Age Concern England - Homepage) was quite useful.

As for care homes, there are good ones and there are bad ones. If it does come to that, then visit a few, ask questions, and trust your instincts. I think I was very lucky in finding a good one that's only a 10 minute walk from where I live (so no problems visiting), and my Dad has settled in very well.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

cheers for the link Tony will have a good read. So in theory could my dad sell his house for a few quid (done legally via solicitors etc) and that would be okay? What we dont want to happen is if he goes into a home for a short period of time, but social take all his assets so when he comes out he has nothing if you see what I mean

TonyG

If it's only for a short period of time, I think that's respite care. If your dad's coming out of hospital, but needs a period in an intermediate care home (it's a sort of halfway house between hospital and home) to get him back on his feet, then I think that this is funded by the NHS but again, there is a time limit as they are only there to get people back on their feet.
As for Social Services 'taking everything', it's more a case of them not funding until assets/savings drop below the threshold, so if he did need to go in to a care home for a short period, it's only that period that would have to be funded (if that makes sense), so he would still have his house to go back to afterwards.

RESSE

iTrader: (1)

Typical cost of full time residential care is now in excess of £2,000 per month.

Someone who needs nursing care for a period of 15 years, at a cost of £2,000 per month increasing by 5% pa compound would incur total costs of over £500,000.

Normally, the State will contribute to these costs only if an individual's assets are £20,500* or less. If assets are between £12,500* and £19,500* only partial help may be available (and only after a stringent means test). As a result, every year an estimated 40,000 homes are sold to meet the cost of care.

* Please note these limits apply to England (Scotland and Wales are different).

Richard

David Lock

There are care plans offered by private companies where cost of care at a reasonable level is GUARANTEED for life. Pretty inhuman things as they have to assess life expectancy etc but they do suit some circumstances.

My dear old mum did one for £60k and her care was paid for at £2900 per month. My mum just lived long enough to have made it worthwhile but if you die the week after taking out the plan......

Hope it works out for your dad. My father-in-law had something similar before he had a pace maker fitted which was an instant cure. dl

PS. Father in law ended up in a Abbeyfield Home. About £500 per month and it was a superb place. Worth checking out.

Brit_in_Japan

This is a good source of info about who pays when a relative goes into a care home:-
http://www.helptheaged.org.uk/NR/rdo...re_home_is.pdf

You can use a "life-time gift " to give money/property to others and they will not be subject to tax once 7 years has passed from the date they were given. This is particularly useful in lowering or removing inheritance tax on the estates of those who've died.

Jaydee5

I would be seriously looking into the reasons why the hospital feel your Dad can't go home. From my experience, the hospital's main concern is that they ensure a safe discharge and time and time again, the bog standard solution is to "go into care". Similarly, GP's voice the same opinion.

Before you get too concerned about finances (and sadly, there is no way to "con" the system unless you sign over your property many many years before an event like this is likely to happen) I would ask to speak to the Social Services Department of the hospital. Get a Care Manager involved who can a) explain all the options b) start to consider a Care Package at home for your Dad.

The botton line is that if your Dad has "capacity" (of sound mind...and you have to very demented before you're considered to be NOT of sound mind) and he wants to return home....then that's what happens No one can MAKE him go into care (unless he is sectioned...and that's another story and your Dad doesn't sound as though he falls into that category). Obviously, there may be risks but we all take risks every day...and we don't get put into care. If your Dad understands the risks and still wants to live in his own home....let him

Start with what your Dad wants..get advise about appropriate care at home and don't be led by doctors at hospital who want a safe discharge first and foremost.

I could say loads more but I won't. I know you're main concern is the money at the moment and in answer to that....if your Dad goes into care and he has a property he will be classed as a self funder until his money drops to a certain level (round about £20,000).

HtH

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

thanks for that but my main concern is my dads health, but as nothing appears to be happening at the hospital and it appears that they want to put him in a home it is something that my sister brought up (she looks after his financials). We dont want him (and ultimately it will be us withiut sounding cold hearted) being screwed by social/government for something he has worked hard throughout his life to obtain, especially if they dont appear to be doing anything for him.