dilemma_dude

Hi folks,

Please excuse the newbie registration, however quite a few on here know me and until now, the following has always been contained within the 4 walls of my house. The thread title isn't exactly accurate either as marriage guidance isn't really whats needed imo.

Basically, My wife and I have been together for 11 years, and married for 3.
We have a 1 year old daughter who is my absolute world.

We have gradually grown apart and have not been getting on for a long time. We do not seem to enjoy each other's company anymore and don't really do anything together.

I'm not really sure the reasons for us not getting on, as it seems to have "snowballed" and suddenly its a huge issue which sort of crept up.

Also, my wife was diagnosed with depression 2 months ago, and has been referred to a counsellor for "anger issues".

I could rabble on for hours here, however I shall try not to.

I could easily list my view on our problems, as could she, however I've kind of got to a place where I'm tired of trying to keep a sinking ship afloat.

Problematic issues have been identified many many times over the years and the opportunities have been there to correct the situation, however this hasn't happened.

So, I now feel that we would perhaps be better apart, rather than making each other unhappy.

My dilemma is my baby. I simply cannot contemplate life away from her. I live to see her smiling face each day and take great pleasure and pride in bringing her up to the best of my ability. If I were to leave the wife, I'd be depriving my daughter her home, as well as the "family unit". The guilt of this is eating me up and to be honest, is the glue that holds us together right now. I am a firm believer that a child deserves to have both parents present and I want so so much to be there for my girl, but I also feel it is not fair to bring her up in an unhappy relationship.

My other fear that kills me, is the thought of my wifes possible future new man, being my daughter's father figure, and her new "daddy"

How, or where do I find the strength to deal with this?

I don't honestly see the relationship being repaired and to be honest, I think both the wife and I would be happier, better people apart.

Any genuine, non judgemental advice would be greatly appreciated.

Turbohot

Not some expert on marriage guidence,dude. But one thing I must say that your wife has had a child only a year ago. Your wife may be going through post natal depression. Women can behave very differently for a long time after having a child.You have loved the woman for years prior to that and, got on. The worst thing about this society is that people give up on each other. I would sincerely think of giving it more time. For your sake, your wife's sake and, for the child's sake. If it still doesn't work, fair enough.
Have you thought of going to Relate?

Bubba po

Firstly, can I say you have an excellent attitude to the whole situation. I've not been through this, but I can imagine what you're going through as I absolutely dote on my son and couldn't imagine being apart from him. It might be better to split amicably and end up with a situation where you could call round every day to see your little girl - the main thing is to not put each others' backs up during any separation. How does your partner feel? Would she completely collapse with hurt, indignation and spite if you told her you thought it might be best to split? In that situation, she might use your little girl as a weapon.

I think that you ought to tentatively canvass your partner's opinion without giving anything away, first off.

Ben v7

Sorry to hear this for you.

My honest opinion is that you should seperate - if you truely have explored all reasonable options for repairing the relationship. What your daughter wants to see is stability in my opinion. You and your wife arguing all the time in front of the child is going to be damaging and why delay if you really can't make it work. Also your daughter is very young and you have a few years before she will be able to work out what's going on.

It is going to be anything other than plain sailing for you mate and I do feel for you. Perhaps the best bet would be to seperate as soon as possible - to minimise further arguing and thrash out this issue of seeing your daughter with you partner as soon as possible. I'd personally take the visititation rights issue to court if nothing else so you have it in writting that you will be allowed regular access... other than just do your best to estabilish with your wife that she is not going to stand in the way of you being there for your daughter.

john banks

My father left when I was one year old, and the fall out wasn't remotely sorted on any side until 18 years later and many consequences remain. I probably turned out better in some ways and worse in others as a result. My father benefitted from the divorce, I don't think my mother did.

I would support Turbohot's comments simply from the point of view that I also haven't been through this, but often do help families through this sort of situation. Also without being judgemental, I do think that marriages are there to be made to work no matter what. This does involve putting aside many of what each party may consider their rights and looking more to supporting the other and fulfilling their responsibilities. I sincerely do not mean to sound harsh.

Ben v7

John - agree marriages should be made to work, but people change and why sacrifice your happiness from that point forward for making what in hind sight has turned out to be a mistake... sounds much more serious than just a few rows here and there.

Lee247

What a sad story
Your wife has a medical condition, ie depression is recognised as this. If you don't feel you can support her through this, you must leave. Your daughter would be much happier with parents who are happy, be they together or apart. You sound like a doting father and will have no problems keeping in touch with your daughter.
Please think on though, your wife may, with medical help, get back to the way she was.
I wish you luck

AudiLover

I agree with turbohot

john banks

Ben v7, ISWYM, but happiness should not supercede vows IMHO, especially when there is "sickness and health" at issue. This is a time a relationship is being tested, think of the strength it could have if this was worked through successfully, that would be something worth saving, and because of that it will be hard work because a lifelong relationship of quality doesn't come cheap.

The original poster clearly has some moral backbone - you can tell because he is questioning others' needs before his own. He doesn't know why they don't get on, they don't get on, things have snowballed. Sounds like some relationship work is required with a determination that anything will be done to make it work.

Young families can be very stressful for the Dads as well. They might go from being the centre of attention from their wives to being no2, the supplier etc. When she lacks the emotional resources to show him how appreciated he is (which is understandable in a new mother, especially a depressed one!) he may feel rejected and unloved, and before we know it we've snowballed a previously healthy (but relatively unstressed) relationship into a nightmare.

Initially, it needs another try I'm sure at this early stage.

boxst

Hello

All the above posts appear to be focusing on the depression part. The original message says that they have been growing apart for a long time, and perhaps the depression is the final thing that pushes this person over the edge.

If you can cope, I would suggest staying and helping your wife through the depression and then leaving. This would be beneficial for your daughter as your wife will probably fall apart if you leave now. Extremely difficult to do, but you asked for opinions.

Steve

AudiLover

See the problem with people today is that they give up or walk away from things to easily. Lifes about comprimeses and sacrificies, to tough it out through thick and thin. The people of today are spoilt, dont want to put any hard work in and run away as soon as life gets tough.

I say stick it out mate, it sounds like your doing a great job, just keep at it, try and keep positive and hope you will see the sunshine at the end of the tunnel soon.

Ben v7

John - completely agree with what you have said. Guess it's up to the orginal poster to decide whether he truely has no option but to seperate from his wife...

LegacySTi

iTrader: (13)

I agree with you totally. People just seem to walk away at any sign of a hurdle. And put no effort into anything. Regards original posters question its a tough one. I understand where your coming from and understand the feeling of being trapped as in its lose lose situation for you or your child. Its really hard to say. Maybe sit down and have a serious chat and if that fails then you prob have no option but to seperate.

davegtt

Ive not read any replies but one thing I'll say is that your daughter means everything to you, and off course you'll fight for that. But on the face of whats happeneing you have 2 options. Fight and make things happen with the person you once loved (or maybe still do) Or cut your losses and move on, but if there is one thing Id say its fight for what your heart says.

Good luck

macattac

I've been i this situation, so I know kind of where you're coming from. Last Year, my wife of 8yrs, suffering from depression, told me that she thought she'd be better off without me being there, as I didn't contribute enough to family life outside of dropping the children off to school every day. And asked me to leave. This was preceded by a very cold period, where we hardly communicated at all. I've since found out that by trying to keep out of the firing line, I unwittingly added to my wife's depressing feelings, and this led to the breakdown in the relatonship.
Not wanting my children to suffer from our failure to communicate, I arranged to see them every evening after work, to put them to bed & maintain a sense of normality in their life. It was only then that my wife & I started to communicate properly after she and I had had time out to evaluate what our relationship meant to us personally.
The fact that we started to talk after I'd put the childen to bed, rekindled the spark in our relationship, and I believe helped my wife out of her depression, as she felt she finally had a release for her pent up frustration with work,the home etc.
It saved my marriage because I refused to give up on my wife & children, and learned to spend just a little more time discussing our feelings, and being more honest with each other about how we feel. It's not pretty sometimes when we air our feelings, but it makes you feel better when you get it off your chest. And it only takes a couple of minutes out of your day to communicate with your partner, and then you have a plan to prevent it from getting to the same situation again. You'd be surprised, it may be the smallest of things that with the onset of depression, has escalated to this. And burying your head in the sand doesn't work.

I'm not sure if you feel the same way I did, but communicate anyway, it'll be better for your child in the long run if you can get on.
Best of luck for the future. You need to show someone you love them by your actions, be they lover or child. Then they'll see it for themselves.

WHEELSHOP0_0

Possibly a strange way of doing it but I think you could show her your post.
Its honest, eloquent, and heartfelt. Ask her to be the same and give her time to respond. No arguments, shouting, etc.
We all hope the best for your family,ALL of you.
Men are usually unwilling to expose their true feelings, women suffering from post natal depression can be very difficult to communicate with, but if you can be true to each other and both have the best of intentions for your child as a priority the right outcome will become evident.

Very best wishes.

LG John

For better, for worse, etc.

Your wife has given birth to her first child recently which will have completely changed both of your lives. You admit that she has been diagnosed as depressed. At the risk of sounding harsh I think to walk out now is the easy option. I think you have to talk to your wife and try to agree to putting your energies into sorting your problems and getting her back to full health. If you were telling me that you were both fit and healthy and had not been able to make it work together for years I'd perhaps see some argument but leaving now reads as the easy option. Marriages aren't supposed to be easy - you have to spend many many years with your partner and they will experience every high and low life has to throw at you with you. The reward is overcoming these issues

j4ckos mate

firstly i admire your ***** for admitting there is a problem.

ive had loads of baneys with the missus
but they way i see it is that the good times see you thru the bad times

you both have to wake up really positive and do your best each day, i wonder why it is you dont mention your faults ? are you the only man that doesant have any?

dilemma_dude

Firstly folks, heartfelt thanks for the advice thats been forthcoming

I should clarify, that the growing apart is not due to my wife's depression, however her depression is undoubtably contributed to by the growing apart.

I've reached a stage where I genuinely believe that if I remove myself that my wife would maybe be in a better place... I have no doubt she'd be as gutted as I would, but in the broad scheme of things, it seems like the lesser of two evils. (if it weren't for my wee girl)

Without going into our past indepth (you'd all fall asleep ) there have been quite a few problems (more than the average couple) and we have always had quite a heated and passionate relationship with lots of arguments and fighting, almost always over trivial stuff. Opposite personalities in a lot of ways.

Perhaps we have both been irresponsible to allow our relationship to develop as far as children when we both knew/know that we are perhaps, "incompatible"?

My wife has issues with insecurity and trust, which date back to her days before me, and I have always been understanding and never given her any reason to doubt me or to worry.
However, in my niavity, I think I may have bred a monster, as I have always jumped through hoops to prevent her worrying, for example, on a lads night out, she'd want to drop me off, pick me up, text me constantly, and I allowed it to happen as I never had anything to hide.
With hindsight, I realise I have allowed her insecurities to remain when I should have been "cruel" as it were and force/teach her to trust me.

This has been a major contributory factor in a lot of the fighting, and I've kind of got to a stage in life where I feel I have done more than enough to earn her trust, so for her to still not fully trust me, hurts. She says that every guy has "it in them" and that its only a matter of time before I do the dirty on her. To be constantly treat like a womaniser becomes extremely tiring and I long to be trusted and respected for the decent father and husband that I have always striven to be.

Anyway, I'm babbling.....

Regards vows, I respect the views of the posters who have brought them up, and I wholeheartedly meant them when I took them, however we do not have a crystal ball, and the situation that has manifested itself is unbearable. Surely vows are not more important than the happiness of my wife and I, or even more importantly, my child?

dilemma_dude

I've got my fair share buddy, I guess its quite difficult to be self critical. I'm sure my wife could give you plenty

john banks

It isn't unheard of for insecure women to produce the very outcome they fear by their distrust and crushing dependency. On the other hand, they often have a point about the selfish behaviour of their men on their nights out.

Whether there is anything recoverable might depend on whether you've both been able to lay our your stall (maybe even preceded by praise for something the other party does do well) without interruption, stating your view of the facts and being willing to take criticism etc. In a fiery relationship in particular, this may be a role for an intermediary?

AudiLover

Have you guys tried counselling? TBH I think you two stand a good chance of getting back on track!

B-B

I do not envy you being in this position. My husband has just left me with a four year old (and a 17 and 20 year old). After 21 years he says the spark has gone and he wants the spark before he gets too old. He says we will both be better for the split....................Time will tell but it does NOT feel like that at the moment. It feels like he wants his freedom and sod the rest of us. It is our four year old son that will suffer. I feel this situation could maybe have been averted if we had TALKED much earlier. My only suggestion to you is talk to her, and keep it amicable for your baby's sake.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like you're going through a bad patch to me. What you highlight is what I'd call life. We all look at other peoples relationships and think they look rosy. Its the face they put on.Bringing a new life into the world is the best thing in the world and you want to watch your daughter grow. Its worth sacrificing an awful lot to do that. Good luck

dilemma_dude

It would be dead easy for me to spout on here about what a perfect guy I am and how this is all my wife's fault, which is obviously not the case.

Suffice it to say, I have on loads and loads of occassions tried to discuss things with my wife and illustrate how things were sliding, while we were in a much better position to catch them. Even now, she admits that I had a point on these occasions, however the repairs weren't carried out when they should have been.

I do love my wife and I know she loves me. We have been through loads together and have lots of history together as well as a beautiful baby daughter, to whom she is a really good mum, however I think we both are questioning whether we are still "in love".

I think the posters who have mentioned counselling have a good point, or an informal intermediary at the least would perhaps help.

I suppose it comes down to whether we are both willing to work at it, or do you admit defeat and throw the towel in.

The thing is, whatever outcome, it will be a joint decision... I'm not about to pack my bags and go sow my oats...

Turbohot

Dude, insecurity is one of the problems that worsens in post natal depression period. I think it will be a good idea to go for counselling together. May be, you two can have separate places to live in, continue counselling and if it doesn't work, start divorse proceedings.
I know of a couple that went through very similar situation. Living under the same roof and going counselling did not work. They separated. It was man's decision. Husband gave up hope and stopped going to counselling sessions but wife continued. She really made an effort and changed. But husband pushed her so far with his disbelief and avoidance that, she ended up meeting another man who valued her. All their hopes to save their family unit were killed, then.
If you expect to separate, be prepared for her to find another partner. Same goes for you. So far child is concerned, you have to harden up and be satisfied with seeing her on the weekends.
No one wants family splitting unless there are grave reasons. It is a difficult time for both of you. Take sensible steps. You will have to divert your mind to other interests etc. to find strength. One day, you will find another partner too.

Good luck.

IWatkins

dilemma_dude,

Most of what you are saying is very familiar to me. I know a couple who were in exactly the same position apart from a few details.

a) It was the man who was depressed (brought on by the problems)
b) They were not married but hadbeen together for 9 years
c) They didn't have children

But everything else was neigh on exactly the same. Trust issues on the womans side etc.

They went through the loved each other but no "in love" thing for months and months. It dragged and dragged. And as it did so it started to spiral out of control. This was mainly caused by one not saying they loved the other in case the other didn't say it back etc. No one wants to feel rejected.

She didn't trust him so he started to get more secretive. He didn't like the lack of trust so he didn't feel as loved. She didn't like the secretiveness so she didn't feel as loved. The sex life became non existant or at best, a disaster. And then the communication stopped.

The whole thing just got way out of control.

But they booked into Relate as a last ditch effort. He wasn't keen as it required talking about "feelings". But it did work, only needed a few sessions but being able to talk freely in front of the partner in a moderated fashion meant they got out all their problems with each other in a civil and open fashion.

Not long afterwards, they started to get things back on an even keel. His depression went very quickly. They started to do more things together again, simple stuff at first, but then more exciting/outgoing things. Within six months you wouldn't have known there was a problem.

They say "Relate" saved them. They are married now with a kid and another on the way. They say it was just all down to lack of talking to each other in an open and civil fashion. Be open about your feelings and you can work it out.

Cheers

Ian

LG John

100% agree - I learnt this lesson in life the hard way. I was so insecure with a lass that I had a fight over the phone about it when she was in another city. I accused her of all sorts and pushed her too far so she went out and screwed the sh*t out of some guy that night. Hurt like hell at the time but so fundamentally changed my outlook on life. Such level of insecurity and need for control is IMHO the most damaging thing to a relationship. She must a) recognise there is a problem and b) seek professional help to deal with it if you are to sort that particular problem. For me it took the very thing I feared to 'cure' me but I would imagine professionals could achieve a similar result.

FWIW I'd also bet my house that 90% of all your marital problems stem from this very issue - 'trust'. It is the most important thing in a relation by a massive distance