alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Some friends of ours' parents BOTH look like having to go into care.

Both worked all their lives, have some SMALL savings, but have paid for their house.

Now it looks as if social services will take the house to pay for their care

This is UTTERLY cracking them up as they wanted to leave it to their grandson, aged 18, to start on the housing ladder. We are NOT talking huge sums here.

Is there ANY way this can be avoided?

PLEASE folks, no lecturing posts from so-called socialists saying we HAVE to pay for our care, etc etc. They both worked all their lives and paid taxes etc too. Surely, they deserve something now?

TIA, Alcazar

pslewis

In all honesty, the 18 year old should sort their own finances out .... like we all had to!

Why should we pay for the elderly care when they have wealth that can be tapped into? It keeps our taxes down!

Why should we pay so that some 18 year old can get a handout?? The taxpayers will be paying for the 18 year olds windfall and why should we?????

Pete

WHEELSHOP0_0

Dont know for sure but seem to remember a case where someone gifted the house to a trust(family members and a solicitor) who administered the house for the owners, this allowed the person(grandson) to live in it, pay the trust a rental income and have the first option to buy. I think this allowed the people to pay a little (rental income I think) towards the healthcare and everyone was happy. Proper legal advice is required SOON in this case as it sounds like getting messy quickly.HTH

WHEELSHOP0_0

If they had pi$$ed all the money up against a wall or lost it all betting on the geegee's the would still get free care, so why punish people who have been sensible?

pslewis

I agree with that point ....... but it is a different issue!! We all agree that its not fair!

BUT, why should we, the taxpayers, pay some 18 year old a big windfall?? Why??

Pete

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

I'm sitting on the fence on this one

Good luck though, hope you get the outcome you after

WHEELSHOP0_0

Cos he's 18(will probably pay tax for 50+ years),has sensible family(not dole scroungers that we have paid for for the last 60 years), and should not be punished for being encouraged to do things the right way( if they take the family house why should he think that working/saving for the next 50+years is the right thing to do. Anyone in this situation has my sympathies as we are breeding a nation of "I,m alright Jack, dont need to work " attitude.
Just mho. tho.

pslewis

Pete

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

pslewis

Like I said .... scum should NOT get care unless they can pay for it - but thats not the issue here.

The Issue is whether an 18 year old should get a windfall paid for by you and I and all taxpayers!! I, personally, think NOT!

Pete

WHEELSHOP0_0

Pete, I am sorry if I have mis-understood your point, I think Its their money/asset and should be able to do what they want with it. I am certainly planning in leaving my family with anything I can, I pay tax every minute I work/employ people and as such expect to get my fair share in return, the NEW regulations to do with social care seem to be "moving the goalposts" to me. When the grandparents started paying tax they would have expected to have free heathcare in return. Now its changed. The grandson is irrelevent (to a degree), if they wanted to give it to the Moonies/charity/some cats home or whatever its their choice. PS I am starving, can I have a pie?

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

Pie party at my mums tonight, you most welcome

simpsons !

This happened to a neighbour of mine a few years ago so the rules will have changed since then as BLIAR will have realised he was missing out on a few quid somewhere along the way. But if i remember rightly they re-mortgaged the property and released some equity which then they gave the daughter in a series of gifts and she paid lump sums of her own mortgage, His pension that he recieved on retirement paid the mortgage payments.It was cheating a bloody stupid rule at the time but there is nothing clever about giving the goverment money that you really should'nt have to!

pslewis

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO address and I'll be there

Pete

WHEELSHOP0_0

I am in Scotland, just how good are these pie's?

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

Not wanting to take it off-topic see here:

https://www.scoobynet.com/best-pies-uk-t547613.html

Back ontopic

WHEELSHOP0_0

If you check post 5 on piemaggedon you will see I am a consumer(industrial quantities) of the luscious pie. Always willing to travel for a truly great pie.

PaulC72

Alcazar,

I do not profess to be an expert in these types of thing but could they not sell him the house, thus completeing a legal transaction, the sum they sell it for does not have to be the market value, you hear stories all the time about companies that get sold for a £1 so could they not try that? after all as long as money changes hand it is a legal transaction surely.

HTH.

Paul.

msis

simpsons has got it spot on, I work in this field. Create a debt against the estate and there's nothing for them to take.

David Lock

Yes there will be but your parents' friends need to get some proper independant advice - start with CAB - about the whole aspect of care. And remember state care is not usually as nice as private care. My mum had to sell up and she bought a plan for £60k which guaranteed her a place in a decent home for life (£2900 per month when she died) and they gave her MRSA for free

My father-in-law went into an Abbeyfield Home (which caught fire!!) being a private charity but he was able to pay for that out of his state pension and keep his house. Abbeyfield have various grades of home from rooms and meals where the residents are able to more or less look after themselves to more expensives ones with nursing care included.

So again much will depend on the old folks current state of health. If they are just old and doddery then may be they could stay at home and someone will have to bully social services to go in and help them. I am sure they would be happier.

Personally I would keep an 18 year old well away from any deals/agreements and deal with his parents instead (assuming they are around?).

Or they could move to Scotland and get free care IIRC?

BTW I am an old leftie at heart and I think old people are treated like **** by all governments. And families are usually pretty useless too

dl

WHEELSHOP0_0

If they re-mortgage surely the govt. would just take the cash as payment for the healthcare, and gifting the money on completion of the mortgage would not be allowed.(I think,well almost sure).
I think Alcazar should get his friends to get proper legal advice here as Its a minefield and the wrong move might be a disaster.

2000TLondon

If they are sensible they will sell / give the house / equity to their children before they have to go into care. This will also avoid inheritence tax. The downside with creating a debt against the house is surely that will take away value of the inheritence in the end? As far as I am aware there is no reason the house can simply not be given / sold for a nominal fee? Assuming the parents are still of sound mind.


There is absolutely no reason not to do this, and the sooner the better.

WHEELSHOP0_0

Is there not a seven year clawback period?(I think).

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

It is a bit sad that the government makes it diffcult to pass on wealth, its like the blopdy Council Tax, two million are struggling to pay it in bands a to c so the suggestion is that those in the higher bands pay more, f*ck that, I am not paying to subsidise every bloody ****** in a terrace to go to Spain, have the full Sky package, Smoke 40 a day and drink vast ammounts, neither do I want to subside this governments stupid immigration policies.

The systems need to be a bit smarter, penalise those who pay nothing in, those who take more out than they should and those that have more money than they could possibly spend, not the working people who have generated a little wealth.

Chris L

This happened to a great aunt of mine many years ago. She effectively paid for all of her care costs through the sale of her house. I have to say that it really doesn't feel right when I think what she went through in her life and the amount she worked etc. It seems desparately unfair that she contributed to her state pension / health treatment etc for more than 50 years and when she actually needed the help, she effectively got nothing.

It forced my parents to make other arrangements with their house, as this is the biggest asset they have (like most people) - the deeds have been split 50 / 50 between my Mum & Dad. The beneficary, when one partner dies, is a trust fund. The other 50% goes to the trust fund when the other partner dies - the ultimate beneficiaries of the trust are my sister and I. However, this was done a long time ago and the rules about trusts like this have changed (this was also done to protect against inheritance tax).

I don't hold out much hope alcazar - I would get some decent legal advice quickly!

andy97

iTrader: (1)

the longer the period before the remaining parent has to go into care, then the less chance the council have, saying you have done this planning to get out of paying for care costs. Get legal/financial advice asap

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

The problem with this system is that if you p1ss all your money up the wall through your life, go on holiday, live in a council house there is nothing left to take, you get cared for anyway so what the point of trying to buy your own house ?

AudiLover

Whats the value of the house mate?

Mark Miwurdz

I suspect the financial landscape has changed somewhat since you bought your first house but I appreciate that was probably a long time ago. To refresh your memory, the average house price today is around £179,000 and the average wage is £22,000, according to the latest figures; that represents an 8-fold lending multiple. Assuming these poor sods can raise a deposit in the first place, they're in debt for life.

That's bordering on the first sensible thing you've ever posted. However, their assets at this point, which have probably been already double taxed (income & stamp duty), should leave enough for their care and a lift-up for their beneficiaries. That's notwithstanding the current tax regime which is bordering on financial rape.

Leslie

It is morally wrong that the government should take their house which was paid for by taxed money over some years off them. Especially when Labour promised care from birth to the grave. When we have paid all those years of National Insurance we are entitled to free care in our old age.

Les