Trout

iTrader: (1)

Remarkably appropriate - today's Independent newspaper is focusing on the reality of immigration in the UK. Effectively the strap line is that we have been an immigrant nation since the Romans first came en masse around 2000 years ago.



The Independent

The latest numbers of immigrants living in the UK is as below

India - ..........466,416
Pakistan - ......320,767
Poland - .........264,560
Germany - ......262,276
USA - ............155,030
Bangladesh - ...154,201
South Africa -..140,201
Kenya - .........129,356
Italy - ...........107,002
Australia - ......106,404
Hong Kong - .....94,611
France - ..........94,178
Nigeria - ..........88,105
Cyprus - ..........77,156
South America - 76,412
Canada - .........70,145
Sri Lanka - .......67,832
New Zealand - ..57,916
Spain - ............54,105

All the figures are 2001 (the latest available) except for Poland (2006).

The figures are believed to remain representative.

Rannoch

r32

Not much room for the good old British Citizen.
Is it about time immigration was controled?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Well - if you allow around another 1,000,000 for immigrants of other nations the total is around 3.75 million out of a total population of 54 million.

Hardly overrun is it?

You also need to understand the demographic of 'white' Britain. It is a significantly ageing population so within fifteen years well over a quarter of the population will be retired and there will not be enough younger people working to support the social costs (pension and healtcare).

The only supply of younger people in the workforce is immigration.

Current growth targets in the UK are only being met because of immigration - so no matter how it feels out there without immigration it would have been MUCH worse economically.

I am not espousing a view for or against - however it is useful to know some facts to make a judgement.

Finally I would observe that immigration in the UK is tightly controlled.

Rannoch

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

So with those figures, that makes less than 7% of the population are immigrants?

Are those figures just for legal immigrants and assylum seekers? I assume the illegal immigrants haven't been taken into consideration.

Would I be considered an immigrant? (Born in the UK, but from Hong Kong Chinese [legal - in case that needs stating ] immigrant parents)

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Andy,

good question where The Independent is not clear.

However the 2001 Census statistics indicate that the vast majority of the UK is only overrun with white people , or people who were born here

Here are the figures for England.

Who is white?

Who was born here?

Who was born outside the EU?

Interesting reading.

I am sure a number of our Scoobynet friends would love it in Berwick - if only they could put up with the Scotch accent or Gwent if they like the Taff accent instead

jasey

That only covers people who took part in the census of course .

Trout

iTrader: (1)

So you could assume this does not cover illegal immigration as the Census is a legal requirment - not sure what happens if you don't fill it in though - shipped off to Guantanamo?

If there is underreporting it is likely to be in the areas where there is already very significant diversity. So this data still supports a view that indicates that the vast majority of places in England and Wales have very limited diversity.

Rannoch

2000TLondon

If you are born in the UK, you are a British citizen, (or dual national) of Hong Kong Chinese decent. An immigrant would not have been born in the UK.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

But yet I am judged as an immigrant!

2000TLondon

How do you mean??? As in if you are "not white" people assume you are not British???

TelBoy

He's not denying he's a national though...

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much... but we digress with the discussion in hand.

Leslie

However well many immigrants are at working in this country, there is not the room or the infra structure to support further mass numbers of people coming over here.

Les

unclebuck

The government predicted there would be 15,000 people a year from the new EU member countries moving to the UK for work - instead 600.000 have turned up, just from Poland!!

They are the real numbers.

Next year the Romanians and Bulgarians will be arriving in their droves. If the Polish experience is anything to go by we should be expecting 1,000,000+

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The irony is that without them a lot of our infrastructure would collapse. Look at bodies such as the NFU who need over 100,000 migrant workers to pick existing crops.

In the spring last year there were literally millions of daffodils wasted as the growers could not get pickers. Not the most important crop perhaps, but indicative of the issue in the UK of not enough young people and a specific shortage of young people to do manual labour in the country.

It needs to be controlled but the macroeconomic reality is that over the next twenty years we will need more immigration from developing countries. Without it food prices will rise, our infrastructure will be even more stretched and the tax burden will become unsustainable due to rising social welfare costs.

Rannoch

Dracoro

Am I an immigrant? My parents are Briitsh and born in England, my brother and sister are British and born in England, all my relatives are british and born in England, all my ancestors are british etc. I've been in this country with my mum & dad & family since I was one year old. However, I was born abroad when my parents travelled for a couple of years many moons ago. Does anyone think I should "**** of to where I came from" ????

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Yes

Indeed the Census would have you listed as someone born not in the UK!

You are ruining in the numbers

Leslie

I have to disagree Rannoch. We just cannot support another million or so immigrants. The NHS is really suffering because of what we have already. There just is not enough housing or police to control things either or roads to support the traffic flow. There are so many people in this country already on Jobseekers allowance who are not prepared to get a job, and they are on this benefit in order to impeove the apparent employment figures in this country. Get them off it and force them to look for a real job and contribute to our economy and the industrialists would be satisfied instead of taking advantage of cheap labour with us paying the taxes to support the rest of the lazy articles!

Les

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

The NHS is suffering as not enough money is being invested into it to compensate for people living longer, obesity, alcohol, drugs, smoking, poor diets, lack of exercise, etc, etc.

There are enough houses, it's just that people can't afford them. Also how many council houses are given out to people who don't necessary need them.

Jobseekers allowance, well I agree with you, but how many actually want to work but don't, compared to those that can't work.

Now if more people are working (wherever they are from) wouldn't that just be more taxes that could be applied to health, housing, law enforcement, benefits, etc, etc.

stilover

You know what this means don't you?

I'd better buy some more cartridges, for when it all kicks off. Should be easier than shooting Pheasants, and a lot more fun

jasey

**** me Andy - Even the Labour Party think that enough is being invested now (Almost tripled since they came in).

What's the tax burden gonna be under New Tang

OllyK

Or it could be that the billions being sunk in to it is being mismanaged and being spent on layers of pencil pushers rather than drugs and trained medical staff.

While price is an issue, 39,000 a year need to be built to keep up with the increase in population - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3305457.stm

Few I would suggest, if you want to work, there is work out there otherwise we wouldn't be employing all the Eastern Europeans. The problem is the welfare state doesn't give them an initiative to get off their lazy *** and actually work for little more than they get on benefits.

Yes, it adds to the tax take for the government, but many of the immigrant workers are working at around the minimum wage and so the tax income from them is small. The impact they have on the infrastructure of the country is the same as a person on a high income, I wonder if it actually balances out, especially if they are sending their spare cash back to Poland etc.

stilover

And why does 39,000 homes need to be built each year?

Because the Government is constantly giving Asylum seekers free homes, thus reducing the amount that are available for UK citizens. This has an effect on house prices, meaning that it is getting harder and harder for first time buyers to get on the property ladder, and also why house prices are getting too high for most middle income families to afford.

I work in the construction industry, and are currently involved in pricing these "Low cost affordable homes" the Government are wanting to build. Mostly 1 bed Apartments, and if you see the floor plans, and square footage of these properties, you'd wonder how anyone could live there.

It's just not right that an Asylum seeker can gain a 3 bedroom house that's worth say £200,000 when first time buyers have to live in a tiny shoe box, and pay handsomely for it.

If every Asylum seeker was kicked out (hypothetically) there would be more houses than demand, thus lowering house prices.

OllyK

As I said, due to the increasing population!

stilover

Edited for accuracy

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I meant that the money is not being spent on health, due to the money not being utilised correctly. I wonder how much of our tax would be saved if we weren't paying for the 600,000 jobs created in the civil service by Labour?

I guess you can't have enough middle management!!!

unclebuck

Not to mentiond the Billions getting syphoned of by the so called PFI 'private finance initiative' crooks. There's some 'initiative' getting used there alright.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/privat...766212,00.html

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=571

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2001...ours-poll-tax/

And that is only the tip of a huge iceberg.

jasey

Had me worried there.

Agree entirely .

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Please don't assume that ONLY asylum seekers get houses!! I suspect that those reported in the media are very much in the minority.

There are actually people who need these council houses, and I'm not talking about teenage mums who have been "kicked out" by their families.

Leslie

How many more immigrants do you honestly think this country can cope with Andy Tang?

Les