Why not to show your driving license when stopped?
17 August 2006, 05:58 PM
#1
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Why not to show your driving license when stopped?
Subject aside - I just for done for. . ..
Driving without a seat belt.
oops.
T'was a fair cop.
Everyone was pleasant about it, £30 lighter & on my way.
One question niggles me - I remember reading in lots of different places NOT to show your driving license when being stoped (which I did).
Why is this?
Usually in this situation I'd have been given a producer - does not showing the license have anything to do with it?
Driving without a seat belt.
oops.
T'was a fair cop.
Everyone was pleasant about it, £30 lighter & on my way.
One question niggles me - I remember reading in lots of different places NOT to show your driving license when being stoped (which I did).
Why is this?
Usually in this situation I'd have been given a producer - does not showing the license have anything to do with it?
17 August 2006, 06:39 PM
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PC Plod is not supposed to pull your licence out of its wallet to look and see how many points you have, as this may affect his dealing with your current predicament. IME they always do look 
I suppose if you aren't carrying it then they can only base on 'fair' judgement not influenced by previous naughty behaviour. If you have a clean licence then I would think that carrying it, and being willing to show its cleanliness, would only help? But perhaps its the other way round and they sympathise if you have 9 points but think that giving you three won't affect you if you currently have none?
Oh dear, I'm all
now.
I suppose if you aren't carrying it then they can only base on 'fair' judgement not influenced by previous naughty behaviour. If you have a clean licence then I would think that carrying it, and being willing to show its cleanliness, would only help? But perhaps its the other way round and they sympathise if you have 9 points but think that giving you three won't affect you if you currently have none?Oh dear, I'm all
now.
17 August 2006, 06:57 PM
#4
because if you're stopped for a more serious offence, you might be able to use this defence http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1552322.stm
17 August 2006, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by speedking
PC Plod is not supposed to pull your licence out of its wallet to look and see how many points you have, as this may affect his dealing with your current predicament. IME they always do look I suppose if you aren't carrying it then they can only base on 'fair' judgement not influenced by previous naughty behaviour. If you have a clean licence then I would think that carrying it, and being willing to show its cleanliness, would only help? But perhaps its the other way round and they sympathise if you have 9 points but think that giving you three won't affect you if you currently have none?
Oh dear, I'm all now.
I suppose if you aren't carrying it then they can only base on 'fair' judgement not influenced by previous naughty behaviour. If you have a clean licence then I would think that carrying it, and being willing to show its cleanliness, would only help? But perhaps its the other way round and they sympathise if you have 9 points but think that giving you three won't affect you if you currently have none?Oh dear, I'm all
now.Doesn't matter, when you give your name, address, d.o.b, the PNC screen will show how many points you've got
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18 August 2006, 09:15 AM
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I was told its because the police have the right to take you licence off you there and then and not hand it back. Then it can be a right pain trying to get it and in the end costing up the price of another in the long run.
18 August 2006, 09:21 AM
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If you get stopped - put on your best polish accent and say "I no understand - wot you mean insurance, MOT, licence ????"
They'll let you go - not worth the hassle.
Come across as a law abiding citizen and you'll be taxed (fined) !
They'll let you go - not worth the hassle.
Come across as a law abiding citizen and you'll be taxed (fined) !
18 August 2006, 09:24 AM
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I've learn't the hard way.....
If asked if you have your licence with you always say NO, as if you hand your licence over they then have the very simple option of keeping it and sending it away for endorsement etc...
If you answer NO 99 times out of 100 you will just get a bollocking and a producer......
If asked if you have your licence with you always say NO, as if you hand your licence over they then have the very simple option of keeping it and sending it away for endorsement etc...
If you answer NO 99 times out of 100 you will just get a bollocking and a producer......
18 August 2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
I've learn't the hard way.....
If you answer NO 99 times out of 100 you will just get a bollocking and a producer......
If you answer NO 99 times out of 100 you will just get a bollocking and a producer......
99 times out of a 100 it won't get you off.
I think the hope is if you don't surrender at the roadside a "mistake" may happen and you don't hear anything else about it.
18 August 2006, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by speedking
PC Plod is not supposed to pull your licence out of its wallet to look and see how many points you have, as this may affect his dealing with your current predicament.
A Constable in uniform has the power (RTA 1988) to stop a vehicle on a road and inspect the driver's documents at any time. This includes licence
In fact, it is imperative that the cop knows how many points the person has, as this can have a direct influence over which course of action the cop requires to take.
If he is aware that you have 9 points, he CANNOT issue you with an endorsable ticket as this will effectively put you over the ban threshold. You will be reported to the court in these circumstances so that the court can decide whether to ban or not to ban.
18 August 2006, 10:30 AM
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wrong, wrong, wrong.....
Handing over your license at the roadside can be taken as an admission of guilt should the matter get to court.
Has been proven as the case in the past.
Handing over your license at the roadside can be taken as an admission of guilt should the matter get to court.
Has been proven as the case in the past.
18 August 2006, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Peanuts
wrong, wrong, wrong.....
Handing over your license at the roadside can be taken as an admission of guilt should the matter get to court.
Has been proven as the case in the past.
Handing over your license at the roadside can be taken as an admission of guilt should the matter get to court.
Has been proven as the case in the past.
The Road Traffic Act empowers cops to demand to see your docs, so how does your complying with this legal requirement consistute an admission of guilt?
18 August 2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by talizman
Do you have a link to this?
The Road Traffic Act empowers cops to demand to see your docs, so how does your complying with this legal requirement consistute an admission of guilt?
The Road Traffic Act empowers cops to demand to see your docs, so how does your complying with this legal requirement consistute an admission of guilt?
18 August 2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
164.—(1) Any of the following persons—
(a) a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,
(b) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road,
(c) a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a motor vehicle on a road, or
(d) a person—
(i) who supervises the holder of a provisional licence while the holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(ii) whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe was supervising the holder of a provisional licence while driving, at a time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of the vehicle on a road or at a time when an offence is suspected of having been committed by the holder of the provisional licence in relation to the use of the vehicle on a road,
- so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.
- This is NOT "surrendering" your licence. This is complying with the law and "producing" for examination.
- Giving a cop your licence to check when so required is NOT admitting guilt on any level and I don't see it being held in any court in the land that this is an admission of guilt, unless you can prove otherwise via a stated case?
18 August 2006, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Goochie
But points dont show on a photocard license anyway - do they ?
18 August 2006, 10:57 AM
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I think there is a slight difference as well. If yyou're stopped for a non endorseable offence and asked to show your license then theres no reason to not show it. You'll get a producer more than likely anyway so it'll save you time if you've got it on you.
If you get stopped for an endorseable offence I can see why you may not want to hand it over but I don't think it's an admission of guilt.
If you get stopped for an endorseable offence I can see why you may not want to hand it over but I don't think it's an admission of guilt.
18 August 2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Nope but they do on the **** off great A4 bit of paper you have to present with it for the thing to be valid
The card is worthless without the counterpart, and in fact, the card is not a "licence", nor is the counterpart. The two parts together constitute a licence.
18 August 2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by medders
If you get stopped for an endorseable offence I can see why you may not want to hand it over but I don't think it's an admission of guilt.
You have 9 points and get stopped for a red light/speeding/no entry violation etc etc. You are going to get 3 points and hit the magic 12.
The cop should ask how many point you have as if he knows you have 9, you should be charged and reported instead of given a ticket.
If he asks how many point you have and you don't disclose, or don't show your licence then he will probably give you a ticket and the result will be the same, you'll hit 12 points. The reason this shouldn't happen is so that courts hand out bans and not individual police officers.
18 August 2006, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by talizman
A fact that many folk often overlook.
The card is worthless without the counterpart, and in fact, the card is not a "licence", nor is the counterpart. The two parts together constitute a licence.
The card is worthless without the counterpart, and in fact, the card is not a "licence", nor is the counterpart. The two parts together constitute a licence.
18 August 2006, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by talizman
produce his licence for examination,
so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.
so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.
If you're in court charged with burglary then previous offences are not allowed to count against you, why should it be different for drivers?
Surely its not the police who endorse licences, but the DVLA. If a police officer gives three points at the roadside to someone who already has 9 then that should be referred back to court by the DVLA before the licence is actually endorsed?
18 August 2006, 03:00 PM
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The police don't "give out" points. All they can do is report you for an endorseable offence. The points are endorsed onto your licence by the court upon your conviction for said offence.
John.
John.
18 August 2006, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by speedking
I'm not saying I'm right, but all of those can be ascertained without having to look at the pointy part of the licence, i.e. in the old days, with it still in its wallet. No doubt the rules have changed.
mb
18 August 2006, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by brihoppy
slightly different angle...doesnt the photocard on its own constitute a valid form of id though...?
Originally Posted by speedking
I'm not saying I'm right, but all of those can be ascertained without having to look at the pointy part of the licence, i.e. in the old days, with it still in its wallet. No doubt the rules have changed.
When a licence is produced as a result of a hort1 (producer) the counterpart MUST be examined to establish that the driver is not disqualified by points totting.
The photocard merely proves that you have passed a test. The counterpart proves that you are entitled to drive
Originally Posted by speedking
If you're in court charged with burglary then previous offences are not allowed to count against you, why should it be different for drivers?
If you mean that previous driving offences being disclosed at the time of the offence (rather than court), this is no different to a burglar.... An arrested burglar will have his previous convictions checked at the time also.
At the end of the day, I don't think many cops would base their decision on whether to issue a ticket based on the offender's current points tally!
19 August 2006, 12:06 PM
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It is true that an officer may not scrutinise previous endorsements etc. in case it prejudices hie attitude towards you.
I was stopped once when the old licence like a small book was valid, he looked in the back of the licence where any endorsements would be listed. I told him he should not have done that and he handed the licence back and sent me on my way!
Les
I was stopped once when the old licence like a small book was valid, he looked in the back of the licence where any endorsements would be listed. I told him he should not have done that and he handed the licence back and sent me on my way!
Les
19 August 2006, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
It is true that an officer may not scrutinise previous endorsements etc. in case it prejudices hie attitude towards you.
In my (almost) ten years in the job, I have never heard of that, and it is certainly not something that is taught to police officers. There is no legislation in force preventing a licence being examined, nor am I aware of any local procedures discouraging officers from being "nosey".
As I've said a few times, if a driver is being issued with an endorsable ticket it is imperative that the issuing officers knows that person's current points status.
Checking the endorsements page is often the safest method of ensuring that the driver is permitted to drive.