Plane bombers
17 August 2006, 02:43 PM
#1
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Plane bombers
Interesting opinion item running on the Register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...t_terror_labs/
The gap in the logic, of course, is that the item insists on assuming TATP will be used and doesn't consider that there might be other possibilities. Still, I think it effectively sums the situation up from at least one point of view.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...t_terror_labs/
The gap in the logic, of course, is that the item insists on assuming TATP will be used and doesn't consider that there might be other possibilities. Still, I think it effectively sums the situation up from at least one point of view.
17 August 2006, 03:10 PM
#2
Based on their behavior, it's reasonable to suspect that everything John Reid and Michael Chertoff know about counterterrorism, they learned watching the likes of Bruce Willis, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Vin Diesel, and The Rock (whose palpable homoerotic appeal it would be discourteous to emphasize).
17 August 2006, 03:28 PM
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Its all true . . .When they will release the suspects, and they will eventually release them . . .The situation will be as follows . .
. . .The suspects were British Muslims of Pakistani origin, who happen to wear a beard and run a corner shop . . Also last summer they went to visit Aunt Sumeera in Karachi (and bought her presents from Harrods) . . .And that will be just about all the evidence/intelligence that we're going to get . .
. . .
. . . . . .In polite circles this is known as spinning terror . .
. . .The suspects were British Muslims of Pakistani origin, who happen to wear a beard and run a corner shop . . Also last summer they went to visit Aunt Sumeera in Karachi (and bought her presents from Harrods) . . .And that will be just about all the evidence/intelligence that we're going to get . .
. . .. . . . . .In polite circles this is known as spinning terror . .
17 August 2006, 05:31 PM
#4
By the very nature of what is happening and the organisations involved they will not release many details, it could affect ongoing operations, give people ideas etc. So I accept that a lot of info won't be forthcoming.
I also semi-disagree with the Register. An uncontrolled fire on board an airliner is possibly one of the worst things that can happen. As well as that the unpredictability could always mean that the airframe is damaged too much to continue flying properly.
And what are the options for a crippled airliner mid-atlantic? A ditching in large swells would almost certainly mean a large loss of life.
I also semi-disagree with the Register. An uncontrolled fire on board an airliner is possibly one of the worst things that can happen. As well as that the unpredictability could always mean that the airframe is damaged too much to continue flying properly.
And what are the options for a crippled airliner mid-atlantic? A ditching in large swells would almost certainly mean a large loss of life.
17 August 2006, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
I also semi-disagree with the Register. An uncontrolled fire on board an airliner is possibly one of the worst things that can happen. As well as that the unpredictability could always mean that the airframe is damaged too much to continue flying properly.
. . This, however is not the point . . .Fire fighting equipment onboard an airliner should enable the crew to deal with it competently . . . . . . .And when you say crippled, we (I presume mean) damaged controll surfaces, propulsion systems and hydraulic lines . . .Matie . .To damage those - you need a bomb . .End of!
17 August 2006, 09:25 PM
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Actually that is far from the truth. The oxygen masks on many aircraft are supplied with oxygen by a chemical reaction rather than from, say, big oxygen tanks. One passenger aircraft was lost when a number of these units, which were being carried as cargo in the hold, activated. The heat produced was enough to eventually disable all the control systems and, ultimately, cause a catastrophic failure of the airframe. No bomb and not even a dangerous substance in sight, just a simple chemical reaction which provided some heat.
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18 August 2006, 12:08 AM
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Chemical fire in toilet = seriously bad news...
Especially if the fire is in the storage tank and the fuel provides its own oxygen (or it's an anaerobic burn).
SB
Especially if the fire is in the storage tank and the fuel provides its own oxygen (or it's an anaerobic burn).
SB
18 August 2006, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hedgehog
Actually that is far from the truth. The oxygen masks on many aircraft are supplied with oxygen by a chemical reaction rather than from, say, big oxygen tanks. One passenger aircraft was lost when a number of these units, which were being carried as cargo in the hold, activated. The heat produced was enough to eventually disable all the control systems and, ultimately, cause a catastrophic failure of the airframe. No bomb and not even a dangerous substance in sight, just a simple chemical reaction which provided some heat.
Hedgehog . . . I presume you are being clever and reffering to Valujet crash in the Everglades . . .But if you do remeber, the Captain in that situation refrained from deploying the oxygen masks /and ultimate cause was criminal negligence/freak circumstances. . . .
. . . . . .But I again refer you to the fact that a cigarette lighter and a bit of petrol as an accelerant can be used for the purposes of terror . . .Now . .No one said that a fire on board is good news . .However . .My view is that a)anyone trying to start a fire will be soon enough restrained by the "infidel"
passengers and crew, and b) firefighting equipment on board is sufficient to combat a fire . . . c) aircraft cabin is largely made from fire retardent materials . . .. . . The author of the article is perhaps right to point out that its quite difficult to create a bomb in the Lav, and if you wish to be a drama Queen and overplay the dangers of air travel/terror, may I politely suggest you take a train or boat . . . .Or maybe lock yrself in yr Toilet . .
18 August 2006, 07:17 AM
#10
Originally Posted by WRX300MAN
c) aircraft cabin is largely made from fire retardent materials . . .
In any case, cCouldn't an angy 'warrior' just open one of the doors at altitude for example and instead of having to faff around with smuggling explosives on board??
Agree that Governments are trying to scare us so that they can implement more draconian measures to 'protect us'. I think passenger profiling would be more effective than targeting everyone as a potential terrorist.
18 August 2006, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Suresh
Didn't the Swissair plane that crashed into the Atlantic on route to JFK terminally catch fire because highly flammable insulation materials were (are) routinely used on aircraft? I don't think starting a big fire would be that difficult given the right accelerant.
In any case, cCouldn't an angy 'warrior' just open one of the doors at altitude for example and instead of having to faff around with smuggling explosives on board??
Agree that Governments are trying to scare us so that they can implement more draconian measures to 'protect us'. I think passenger profiling would be more effective than targeting everyone as a potential terrorist.
18 August 2006, 07:31 AM
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Funny that isn't what the report says, but I'm sure you know better. You can read it here if you care to find out for yourself:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
18 August 2006, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by hedgehog
Funny that isn't what the report says, but I'm sure you know better. You can read it here if you care to find out for yourself:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
18 August 2006, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hedgehog
Funny that isn't what the report says, but I'm sure you know better. You can read it here if you care to find out for yourself:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
18 August 2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hedgehog
Funny that isn't what the report says, but I'm sure you know better. You can read it here if you care to find out for yourself:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
I'm bored, but not that bored
18 August 2006, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WRX300MAN
Thanks Hedgehog! I'l get right on it!
18 August 2006, 08:22 PM
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I'm tempted to ruin it for you by revealing who did it but my better nature just won't let me. It wasn't the caretaker though so you can't rely on your experience with Scooby Doo to second guess the plot.
19 August 2006, 12:36 AM
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Matie! Hedgehog!
. . . . . . How art thou . .Finished it . .It was quite exciting , ,Think I may wet my bed! . . . .dude . .Bottom line is . . We are a cabin fire v a cargo hold fire . . .Both of which are quite nasty . .But bottom line is that a cabin fire is far easier to combat as it will be a fire you can see!
. . . . . Therefore, I will relage the Everglades crash as obsolescent to the argument. ......In any event . . .Next holiday I take . . . . . . . . .I'm flying!
. . . . . . How art thou . .Finished it . .It was quite exciting , ,Think I may wet my bed! . . . .dude . .Bottom line is . . We are a cabin fire v a cargo hold fire . . .Both of which are quite nasty . .But bottom line is that a cabin fire is far easier to combat as it will be a fire you can see!
. . . . . Therefore, I will relage the Everglades crash as obsolescent to the argument. ......In any event . . .Next holiday I take . . . . . . . . .I'm flying!
Last edited by WRX300MAN; 19 August 2006 at 04:42 PM.
19 August 2006, 09:26 AM
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Surely any sensible terrorists that have the ability to blend in so well with society would just get jobs in aircraft maintenance and sneak a bomb on in that way. Or am I being over simplistic?
19 August 2006, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NotoriousREV
Surely any sensible terrorists that have the ability to blend in so well with society would just get jobs in aircraft maintenance and sneak a bomb on in that way. Or am I being over simplistic?
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