Should Muslim community spokesmen be apologising?
10 August 2006, 02:12 PM
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Should Muslim community spokesmen be apologising?
Many Muslim leaders who claim to be community spokesmen have tried to reassure the population at large that there is not a significant terrorist threat in this country from their community. They have gone out of their way to emphasis that recent high-profile raids have wrongly singled out members of their community. In words tantamount to blackmail they have suggested that if this targetting of their communities continues there is a risk of unrest. As such it should be obvious to all that there is an orchestrated and devious attempt to obstruct the job of our security services in a calculated Islamocentric and politically motivated manner.
The raids today which appear to have been carried out after lengthy and detailed intelligence operations may have thankfully saved several thousand innocent lives and spared thousands more the grief of losing a family member or friend in an horrific orgy of murder and carnage over the Atlantic. The raids once again undermine the stance of the Muslim spokesmen who claim there is no threat from their community.
We should observe very closely the way in which New Labour and the BBC put the security of this country at risk by downplaying the real threat in an attempt to preserve "community cohesion".
Further we should demand an apology from these so-called community spokesmen made directly to the non-Muslim majority population for the massive disruption, fear and financial damage that members of their community have inflicted upon us today.
The raids today which appear to have been carried out after lengthy and detailed intelligence operations may have thankfully saved several thousand innocent lives and spared thousands more the grief of losing a family member or friend in an horrific orgy of murder and carnage over the Atlantic. The raids once again undermine the stance of the Muslim spokesmen who claim there is no threat from their community.
We should observe very closely the way in which New Labour and the BBC put the security of this country at risk by downplaying the real threat in an attempt to preserve "community cohesion".
Further we should demand an apology from these so-called community spokesmen made directly to the non-Muslim majority population for the massive disruption, fear and financial damage that members of their community have inflicted upon us today.
Last edited by unclebuck; 10 August 2006 at 02:18 PM.
10 August 2006, 02:25 PM
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I'm honestly asking this because I'm genuinely curious. You seem pretty clear in your views - so what effect would an apology have on you?
10 August 2006, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
I'm honestly asking this because I'm genuinely curious. You seem pretty clear in your views - so what effect would an apology have on you?
10 August 2006, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
As ever there is a deafening silence from these community leaders. No apology. No regret. Just silence.
Originally Posted by unclebuck
Taking collective responsibility for the behaviour of their community members might go some way to alter the growing perception of the majority in our country that they are all up to no good.
10 August 2006, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
Taking collective responsibility for the behaviour of their community members might go some way to alter the growing perception of the majority in our country that they are all up to no good.
All the Muslim leaders apologised after 7/7 - did that alter your views at all?
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10 August 2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
But surely taking a collective responsibility is like saying our whole community is like this???
10 August 2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
All the Muslim leaders apologised after 7/7 - did that alter your views at all?
10 August 2006, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SJ_Skyline
UB - has Tony apologised for any of his misdemeanours?
10 August 2006, 02:37 PM
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Now you're changing the question. The Muslim leaders aplogised.
So - be specific - do you want the leaders to apologise or not. And if they did, would it change your views?
So - be specific - do you want the leaders to apologise or not. And if they did, would it change your views?
10 August 2006, 02:37 PM
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An apology would acknowledge that there is indeed a major terrorist threat from within our own British Muslim communities. And then I'd like to hear what Muslim leaders are going to do about it. Our British Muslim communities know who the terrorists are, what they are planning, and when. You just can't keep major terrorist operations like this totally quiet - there will be dozens of other activists involved, who will be known to hundreds of others who choose to keep their mouths shut.
I would also be interested to hear from several ScoobyNetters who have been very vocal on this BBS in condemning Israel over recent weeks. Some have also expressed clear support for 9/11 and the London Bombings (carried out by British Muslims, with Al Qaeda support) and terrorists activities in general, in support of their perverted cause. But they are quiet so far today.
Richard.
I would also be interested to hear from several ScoobyNetters who have been very vocal on this BBS in condemning Israel over recent weeks. Some have also expressed clear support for 9/11 and the London Bombings (carried out by British Muslims, with Al Qaeda support) and terrorists activities in general, in support of their perverted cause. But they are quiet so far today.
Richard.
10 August 2006, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
the majority in our country that they are all up to no good.
10 August 2006, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
Now you're changing the question. The Muslim leaders aplogised.
So - be specific - do you want the leaders to apologise or not. And if they did, would it change your views?
So - be specific - do you want the leaders to apologise or not. And if they did, would it change your views?
10 August 2006, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
I expect there is a mood of grim satisfaction in most UK muslim households today.
Get a grip you sound like a rabid old racist hatemonger.
10 August 2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
I expect there is a mood of grim satisfaction in most UK muslim households today.
10 August 2006, 02:57 PM
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This board seems to be breeding contempt and racism recently! I can kind of understand where people are coming from (I have been guilty of thinking "I don't want to get on a plain with him" before), but i would think that there is only a MINISCULE number of Muslims that would a) become suicide bombers, or b) applaud the atrocities that a) seek to force upon people.
Why should the Muslim leaders apologise, any more than the CofE leaders apologise for any murderers etc. who may belong to that religion? Hitler was a Christian AFAIK, yet we wouldnt expect Christian leaders to apologise for the atrocities undertaken by him.
If the orders had come from the Muslim leaders, then more than an apology would be needed, but I think we all realise this isn't what is happening!
I dislike the way this country is going with immigrants, human rights etc, but it is way off the mark to tar a whole religion with the same brush as those belonging to that religion that seek to cause as much pain and suffering as possible.
If the sick ******* that are caught are that worried about having their own ways/religion, then we should punish them using their own ways/punisments IMHO!
Why should the Muslim leaders apologise, any more than the CofE leaders apologise for any murderers etc. who may belong to that religion? Hitler was a Christian AFAIK, yet we wouldnt expect Christian leaders to apologise for the atrocities undertaken by him.
If the orders had come from the Muslim leaders, then more than an apology would be needed, but I think we all realise this isn't what is happening!
I dislike the way this country is going with immigrants, human rights etc, but it is way off the mark to tar a whole religion with the same brush as those belonging to that religion that seek to cause as much pain and suffering as possible.
If the sick ******* that are caught are that worried about having their own ways/religion, then we should punish them using their own ways/punisments IMHO!
10 August 2006, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Rabid
You really haven't got a clue have you? Most muslims don't want to see death, destruction or terrorism. Be it in the west on aeroplanes or the middle east with the terror state of Israel killing and destroying the lives of countless thousands.
Get a grip you sound like a rabid old racist hatemonger.
Get a grip you sound like a rabid old racist hatemonger.
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
10 August 2006, 03:07 PM
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IMO, the reason some people are asking the community to apologise is because the community as a whole tend to stick together and are the first to protest against injustice against them. As opposed to say the "christian" community, who don't see the arrest of a bunch of whiteys for something (say beating up asians) as their responsibility/problem. In this day and age, tw@ts who happen to be christian don't tend to do things under the christian banner, whereas tw@ts who happen to be muslim do.
Not sticking up for either side btw.
Not sticking up for either side btw.
10 August 2006, 03:09 PM
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I am slightly concerened by reports that i hear of muslims in this cointry wishing to get all the benefits of western society, yet have it governed by Sharia Law. I however would like to believe this was a monority of muslims, and not the community as a whole.
I do not know a great deal about the muslim religion ( i have a few muslim friends, but like the majority of youth today religion plays very little part in our everyday discussions!) But i would assume that in a religoius establishment there is not a preaching of terrorist doctrine by the reliogiuos leaders to the muslim community, and that for the majority it is a place of worship and a religion.
Islam is not a race, it is a religion, and as such 'men if asian decent' cannot be targeted becasue it trancends race ( look at richard reid etc..) The problem arises from under privelidged communitys ( look at the number of raids in inner city birmingham etc..) where a minority of Muslims who interpret the holy books in an extreme manner can find an ear for their views amoungst people who do not know any better and will be easily led.
If community leaders know who these people are they have a duty as a british citizen to report them not protect them ,but i do not feel that every british muslim is a 'bad one'.
I know there are a few muslims on here and would be interested to hear what they have to say to my views, as i am far from preaching race hate!
I do not know a great deal about the muslim religion ( i have a few muslim friends, but like the majority of youth today religion plays very little part in our everyday discussions!) But i would assume that in a religoius establishment there is not a preaching of terrorist doctrine by the reliogiuos leaders to the muslim community, and that for the majority it is a place of worship and a religion.
Islam is not a race, it is a religion, and as such 'men if asian decent' cannot be targeted becasue it trancends race ( look at richard reid etc..) The problem arises from under privelidged communitys ( look at the number of raids in inner city birmingham etc..) where a minority of Muslims who interpret the holy books in an extreme manner can find an ear for their views amoungst people who do not know any better and will be easily led.
If community leaders know who these people are they have a duty as a british citizen to report them not protect them ,but i do not feel that every british muslim is a 'bad one'.
I know there are a few muslims on here and would be interested to hear what they have to say to my views, as i am far from preaching race hate!
10 August 2006, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
I've clearly got far more of 'a clue' than you have. 1 in 4 UK muslims approve of terror attacks. Not 'most' but a very significant proportion actively admit to approving of the destruction. The rest do nothing to stop them, and how much they approve is not clear one way or the other.
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
I wonder how many Irish Catholics supported the IRA, and how many Irish Protestants supported the UDA?
There is a huge gap between saying on a survey that you support something and taking an active or even passive part in it.
And that assumes the questions were not worded in such a way as to distort the response.
Its jumped up little ****** like you with your blinkered view of life that give Muslims in general reason to have something to hate...
10 August 2006, 03:11 PM
#23
Originally Posted by unclebuck
I've clearly got far more of 'a clue' than you have. 1 in 4 UK muslims approve of terror attacks. Not 'most' but a very significant proportion actively admit to approving of the destruction. The rest do nothing to stop them, and how much they approve is not clear one way or the other.
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
10 August 2006, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
Still, you've lost the argument already by resorting to boring and predictable insults.
You're nothing but a scabby old racist with some muslim hate issues probably related to your malfunctioning ***** or similar.
10 August 2006, 03:21 PM
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And that is the key point we mustnt forget in our haste to condemn every muslim. There are alot of things i beleive strongly in, but would never support or agree with violence to get there.
Many muslims ( usually immigrants with family still in the middle east, not 2nd or 3rd generation british muslims) understandably believe that violence to their fellow muslims on the grounds of religion is wrong, but I would guess that even the majority of them wouldnt support a violent attack against an unrelated country ( i.e britain) as away of solving the situation, hence the cause is a just one, the means these men tried to use to highlight it were totally unreasonable and rightly condemmed.
Many muslims ( usually immigrants with family still in the middle east, not 2nd or 3rd generation british muslims) understandably believe that violence to their fellow muslims on the grounds of religion is wrong, but I would guess that even the majority of them wouldnt support a violent attack against an unrelated country ( i.e britain) as away of solving the situation, hence the cause is a just one, the means these men tried to use to highlight it were totally unreasonable and rightly condemmed.
10 August 2006, 03:22 PM
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The thing is, rabid, how do you deal with that 25% or whatever it is? Surely it's not right that so many people can be fundamentally at odds with the country they're living in?
10 August 2006, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Actually, 1 in 4 UK muslims who could be bothered to take part in the survey. But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
I wonder how many Irish Catholics supported the IRA, and how many Irish Protestants supported the UDA?
There is a huge gap between saying on a survey that you support something and taking an active or even passive part in it.
And that assumes the questions were not worded in such a way as to distort the response.
Its jumped up little ****** like you with your blinkered view of life that give Muslims in general reason to have something to hate...
I wonder how many Irish Catholics supported the IRA, and how many Irish Protestants supported the UDA?
There is a huge gap between saying on a survey that you support something and taking an active or even passive part in it.
And that assumes the questions were not worded in such a way as to distort the response.
Its jumped up little ****** like you with your blinkered view of life that give Muslims in general reason to have something to hate...
Nicely put.... Remember aswell there are pods of areas in the UK where there is alot of racial tension. The survey could easily have took place in one of these places and given a poor result of the survey over Britain.
10 August 2006, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
The thing is, rabid, how do you deal with that 25% or whatever it is? Surely it's not right that so many people can be fundamentally at odds with the country they're living in?
I think its nearer 16%, and when has a survey ever been accurate?
You are assuming, for a start, that the survey is representative...
I'd put money on the fact that over 16% of Scots would be quite happy to wake up one morning and find that all of london had been abducted by Aliens...
10 August 2006, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
The thing is, rabid, how do you deal with that 25% or whatever it is? Surely it's not right that so many people can be fundamentally at odds with the country they're living in?
As it's a minority I'd say the problem isn't one that cannot be solved. We've seen a major plot stopped today and that's good news. What we need to do now is build on that and get the mainly peaceful Muslim community to support the efforts of the police to stop this happening.
If we move onto the question is it legitimate to have as an aim the creation of a British Muslim state then I have to say if that's achieved by democratic means then surely we all have to accept it?
It may take some time but I believe that one day we will see Islam having a stronger influence over the political state rather than christianity.
10 August 2006, 03:32 PM
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But we don't really know what that percentage is do we? Surveys are usually only completed by people who've got a point to make. Same reason organisations are swamped with complaiints but not compliments.
I'd treat all the results of those surveys with a huge degree of caution.
I try to base my views on others on my own personal experience - and my experience of all the Muslims I've ever met is that they are peaceful, kind individuals who are just as horrified by the antics of these extremists as the rest of us.
I'm amazed at the number of people who bang on about propoganda but seem to believe everything they read in the papers.
I'd treat all the results of those surveys with a huge degree of caution.
I try to base my views on others on my own personal experience - and my experience of all the Muslims I've ever met is that they are peaceful, kind individuals who are just as horrified by the antics of these extremists as the rest of us.
I'm amazed at the number of people who bang on about propoganda but seem to believe everything they read in the papers.