Advice needed about Fixed Penalty Notice I have been issued
04 April 2006, 01:23 PM
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Advice needed about Fixed Penalty Notice I have been issued
I have just been stopped by two traffic officers along the A12 between Leyton and the Hackney turn off in East London.
I have been issued with a fixed penalty ticket which states that I was exceeding a 50 mph speed limit but the two officers could not produce any evidence as they stated there was no evidence and that their calibrated speedo was justification for pulling me over. When I was pulled over the Police Land Rover Discovery did not have the sirens or the blue lights flashing and I was jestured to pull over by the officer in the passenger seat and I duly pulled over.
Once pulled over I asked what was the reason for being stopped and one of the two officers responded by saying I was speeding, I immediately asked for the eveidence to prove what speed I was being accused of doing, which I believe I have a right to ask for, and the response I received was there was no evidence and that their calibrated speedo was proof of an offence being committed. I further asked if they had any photographic or video evidence or vascar etc. evidence and the response to that was no we don't have any evidence.
I was then asked to show my licence and at first I declined and the response I got was that I would be arrested there and then if I didn't cooperate with them so I produced my photo card licence. I was also pushed by one the officers as he wanted to see my number plate as I was standing in front of it.
After being giving the ticket and asking again for evidence the response I received again was we don't have any evidence and if I wanted to contest the matter in court I would be prosecuted anyway as I am a motorcyclist riding a sports bike and that it will be the two officers word against mine (these were his actual words). That to me stinks of victimisation. He also stated that I was lying on the tank in a riding position consistent with speeding, I replied by saying that I ride with my arms bent at the elbows for a more relaxed position and which naturally brings you closer to the tank rather than with arms straight and tense. It was also very windy and most motorcyclists do crouch down more in windy conditions to aviod being blown about too much.
Can any of you guys offer any help and advice as I am seriously thinking of contesting this penalty notice as the two officers had no evidence at all.
Mods, if this post is in the wrong forum please move it to one more appropriate.
Thanks,
Andy
I have been issued with a fixed penalty ticket which states that I was exceeding a 50 mph speed limit but the two officers could not produce any evidence as they stated there was no evidence and that their calibrated speedo was justification for pulling me over. When I was pulled over the Police Land Rover Discovery did not have the sirens or the blue lights flashing and I was jestured to pull over by the officer in the passenger seat and I duly pulled over.
Once pulled over I asked what was the reason for being stopped and one of the two officers responded by saying I was speeding, I immediately asked for the eveidence to prove what speed I was being accused of doing, which I believe I have a right to ask for, and the response I received was there was no evidence and that their calibrated speedo was proof of an offence being committed. I further asked if they had any photographic or video evidence or vascar etc. evidence and the response to that was no we don't have any evidence.
I was then asked to show my licence and at first I declined and the response I got was that I would be arrested there and then if I didn't cooperate with them so I produced my photo card licence. I was also pushed by one the officers as he wanted to see my number plate as I was standing in front of it.
After being giving the ticket and asking again for evidence the response I received again was we don't have any evidence and if I wanted to contest the matter in court I would be prosecuted anyway as I am a motorcyclist riding a sports bike and that it will be the two officers word against mine (these were his actual words). That to me stinks of victimisation. He also stated that I was lying on the tank in a riding position consistent with speeding, I replied by saying that I ride with my arms bent at the elbows for a more relaxed position and which naturally brings you closer to the tank rather than with arms straight and tense. It was also very windy and most motorcyclists do crouch down more in windy conditions to aviod being blown about too much.
Can any of you guys offer any help and advice as I am seriously thinking of contesting this penalty notice as the two officers had no evidence at all.
Mods, if this post is in the wrong forum please move it to one more appropriate.
Thanks,
Andy
04 April 2006, 01:34 PM
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As far as I am aware I was within the acceptable speed limit of the particular road.
The question I have asked is: Can I be convicted of a speeding offence when the Police can provide no evidence that I was speeding and them purely saying that their calibrated speedo is evidence enough. I was stopped when I was riding at 50 mph in a 50mph zone just after a speed camera and not on the previous road where they claim I was speeding.
The question I have asked is: Can I be convicted of a speeding offence when the Police can provide no evidence that I was speeding and them purely saying that their calibrated speedo is evidence enough. I was stopped when I was riding at 50 mph in a 50mph zone just after a speed camera and not on the previous road where they claim I was speeding.
Last edited by Andrew O'Hara; 04 April 2006 at 01:37 PM.
04 April 2006, 01:39 PM
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As I have said, as far as I am aware I was within the tolerances allowed and the Police could not produce any evidence at all to prove I was speeding along the stretch of road they are stating that I was speeding.
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04 April 2006, 01:41 PM
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04 April 2006, 01:42 PM
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Police saw you over the limit...tough *******.
What sort of place would it be were the police can only nick someone for a crime if they have a camera handy!
Buy a bike with mirrors and slow down.
What sort of place would it be were the police can only nick someone for a crime if they have a camera handy!
Buy a bike with mirrors and slow down.
04 April 2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew O'Hara
As I have said, as far as I am aware I was within the tolerances allowed and the Police could not produce any evidence at all to prove I was speeding along the stretch of road they are stating that I was speeding.
04 April 2006, 01:44 PM
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A mate of mine got done for careless driving on the evidence of two policemen, so I would assume they could do the same for speeding, particularly if they were both looking at a calibrated speedo.
04 April 2006, 01:50 PM
#12
One police officer can form an opinion of speed and thats all it takes to convict you, but with two officers and a calibrated speedo, you will be fighting an uphill battle. The officers will corroborate(sp) each others statement(lie) and you will be convicted in a magistrates court. I would take the FPN this time.
Check out www.pepipoo.com for confirmation, but with two officers its virtually impossible to win
Next time you are stopped give your name and address then say you have no formal identification with you and dont sign anything. There is a defence if you can get away from the scene without identification.
Check out www.pepipoo.com for confirmation, but with two officers its virtually impossible to win
Next time you are stopped give your name and address then say you have no formal identification with you and dont sign anything. There is a defence if you can get away from the scene without identification.
Last edited by andy97; 04 April 2006 at 01:55 PM.
04 April 2006, 01:50 PM
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Try this......walk up to a copper and spend 5 mins insulting him. Then ask if he has a tape recorder...if he says no laugh at his lack of evidence and run off. (if that works getting off your speeding ticket should be a breeze!)
04 April 2006, 01:51 PM
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"The officers will corroborate(sp) each others statement(lie) and you will be convicted in a magistrates court. "
although in the case the cops would tell the truth and the biker would lie.
although in the case the cops would tell the truth and the biker would lie.
04 April 2006, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiggs
Try this......walk up to a copper and spend 5 mins insulting him. Then ask if he has a tape recorder...if he says no laugh at his lack of evidence and run off. (if that works getting off your speeding ticket should be a breeze!)
04 April 2006, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Why waste 5 mins, knee him in the groin and ask if he videoed it. The added bonus is it's unlikely he'll be chasing after you
better play safe...ask if he has a video....then knee him (just in case)
04 April 2006, 01:57 PM
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You may feel hard done by but it's tough luck I'm afraid.
I always take the tack of being as nice as pie to any policeman who stops me, not saying you weren't, but.......
What speed did they say they thought you were going?
Just have to accept it me thinks!
I always take the tack of being as nice as pie to any policeman who stops me, not saying you weren't, but.......
What speed did they say they thought you were going?
Just have to accept it me thinks!
04 April 2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew O'Hara
Tiggs, thanks for all your very helpful replies but could you please just get off this thread. Thanks.
1) If you were exceeding the speed limit at all, you're in trouble.
2) 2 Officers and a calibrated speedo will get you convicted
3) If you want further info, http://www.pepipoo.com/ is a site specialising in this kind of thing.
Can we go back to muppetising the thread now?
04 April 2006, 01:58 PM
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no....this thread is daft. You were seen speeding and were caught by two cops. What sort of question is "can i get off".....no, you cant - thats what police do, they see crime and catch the people in the wrong.
having established all that this thread is now a chance for people to laugh about your situation, this is easily avoided by not posting daft stuff on a public forum.
having established all that this thread is now a chance for people to laugh about your situation, this is easily avoided by not posting daft stuff on a public forum.
04 April 2006, 02:02 PM
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also...sounds like you acted like a muppet anyway:
I immediately asked for the eveidence to prove what speed I was being accused of doing,
I further asked if they had any photographic or video evidence or vascar etc. evidence and the response to that was no we don't have any evidence.
I was then asked to show my licence and at first I declined
I was also pushed by one the officers as he wanted to see my number plate as I was standing in front of it.
After being giving the ticket and asking again for evidence
lol....you asked 3 times for evidence when they said they had none and needed none, you refused to hand over your licence and you stood in front of your plate
I immediately asked for the eveidence to prove what speed I was being accused of doing,
I further asked if they had any photographic or video evidence or vascar etc. evidence and the response to that was no we don't have any evidence.
I was then asked to show my licence and at first I declined
I was also pushed by one the officers as he wanted to see my number plate as I was standing in front of it.
After being giving the ticket and asking again for evidence
lol....you asked 3 times for evidence when they said they had none and needed none, you refused to hand over your licence and you stood in front of your plate
04 April 2006, 02:03 PM
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Two issues seem to have arisen here:
1) Was the individual speeding:
ANY increase over the posted limit renders you liable to prosecution. ACPO guidelines are exactly that, guidelines, and its at the officer's discretion as to whether he follows them.
Can the police nab you without video/photo evidence?
IIRC Yes, Calibrated speedo and the opinion of two officers is sufficient AFAIK, especially if its just for an SP30.
Check out Peepipoo, but unless you're sure of a pretty sound defence you might just have to take it on the chin mate.
Ns04
1) Was the individual speeding:
ANY increase over the posted limit renders you liable to prosecution. ACPO guidelines are exactly that, guidelines, and its at the officer's discretion as to whether he follows them.
Can the police nab you without video/photo evidence?
IIRC Yes, Calibrated speedo and the opinion of two officers is sufficient AFAIK, especially if its just for an SP30.
Check out Peepipoo, but unless you're sure of a pretty sound defence you might just have to take it on the chin mate.
Ns04
04 April 2006, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rik1471
Unless you're a footballer, you're screwed.
Thats right, but now we all know the defence used
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1552322.stm
04 April 2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by davegtt
If theyve given you a FPN surely it says what speed your being accused of doing? So what was it?
04 April 2006, 04:34 PM
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But bottom line is that you either do not know what speed you were doing or you are reluctant to tell us. But it was over 50 by the fact you claim it was within tolerances (but presumably of your bike). So, therefore, you were over 50 and thus liable to be caught.
Was it an unmarked car, or did you fail to spot a marked car behind you?
Basically, you got nicked so you have to accept it. Don;t think you did yourself any favours by not producing your driving licence when asked by two marked police officers - that's hardly going to go down well, so if you took it to court, they'd be more inclined to ensure you got the max penalty for this, rather than you getting away with it.
Best is take the 3 points, fine and leave it. You were over 50 by your own admittance and you got caught. Unfortunately chap, it's a gutter but it's life...
Was it an unmarked car, or did you fail to spot a marked car behind you?
Basically, you got nicked so you have to accept it. Don;t think you did yourself any favours by not producing your driving licence when asked by two marked police officers - that's hardly going to go down well, so if you took it to court, they'd be more inclined to ensure you got the max penalty for this, rather than you getting away with it.
Best is take the 3 points, fine and leave it. You were over 50 by your own admittance and you got caught. Unfortunately chap, it's a gutter but it's life...
04 April 2006, 04:39 PM
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I'm confused as well. You say
'As far as I am aware I was within the acceptable speed limit of the particular road'
which means you were going less that 50mph, yet you also say
'As I have said, as far as I am aware I was within the tolerances allowed'
so you were within the tolerances (which is 10% or so, thus you were over the limit if you assume your speedo is accurate and if you beleive every police officer will agree with the tolerances)...
You took a risk and lost. Sorry chap. You are nicked!
'As far as I am aware I was within the acceptable speed limit of the particular road'
which means you were going less that 50mph, yet you also say
'As I have said, as far as I am aware I was within the tolerances allowed'
so you were within the tolerances (which is 10% or so, thus you were over the limit if you assume your speedo is accurate and if you beleive every police officer will agree with the tolerances)...
You took a risk and lost. Sorry chap. You are nicked!