Cheeky bloke using my store room
05 March 2006, 04:48 PM
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Cheeky bloke using my store room
Hi All
I own a flat in a block of 4, layout on the ground floor is 4 garages at the front and 2 rooms as the back that are intended to be shared laundry rooms (shared between me and the other flat on the same side of the block). I've never bothered with this laundry room til recently as I want a dishwasher in my kitchen so need to move the washing machine downstairs to the laundry. I asked the other owner if she knew anything about it, she says she doesn't use it and doesn't remember hearing anything about it (she's retired and has lived here since it was built). I spoke to the management company (who take care of communal areas maintenance etc) and they didn't know who uses it/has the key, but confirmed it is for my (and other owner's) use and said I could have the locks changed.
The door frame had a section cut out over the lock so has clearly been broken into in the past. This section was covered with a wood panel just nailed on so it was easy to prise off and pop the lock in order to gain access. In there I found a fair bit of junk inc some tradesman type tools like a scaffolding tower and even an old honda engine from a lawnmower or similar. I figured it must have been abandoned at some stage seen as no one knew who used the room, so I decided to change the lock and wait a few months to see if anyone enquired about it.
That was a few weeks ago and yesterday I heard someone hammering and looked out the window to see an unfamilar bloke getting into his van and leaving. Needless to say, the lock has been changed. Gutted I didn't hear/spot him in time to speak to him.
While the room isn't strictly mine (it's not marked on my deeds, will have to check to see if it's mentioned at all) I'm pretty sure it's not his to use and he's certainly not contributing to the communal lighting or ground rent charges etc.
A few of my tools (those used to change the lock) are now locked in the room so I'd like those back at least. Furthermore I don't really want some stranger freeloading storage space I'm entitled to, plus having access to my water, electric and gas supplies.
I don't really want to get confrontational about it as obviously it could cause me hassle given he knows where I live and if he's a scumbag he could target my garage and that contains my Scoob, bike and tools.
Sorry for the long post but I was hoping to get SN's views as to what to do next. Should I break in again and retrieve my tools, then either leave it unlocked for him (he'll know someone has been in as I can't lock it afterwards)? I could add a new lock somewhere else on the frame so it'd be much harder to break in, but think that'd come across as aggressively trying to steal his stuff, which I'm not. Write off the tools and lock as a loss and forget about the room?
Cheers
I own a flat in a block of 4, layout on the ground floor is 4 garages at the front and 2 rooms as the back that are intended to be shared laundry rooms (shared between me and the other flat on the same side of the block). I've never bothered with this laundry room til recently as I want a dishwasher in my kitchen so need to move the washing machine downstairs to the laundry. I asked the other owner if she knew anything about it, she says she doesn't use it and doesn't remember hearing anything about it (she's retired and has lived here since it was built). I spoke to the management company (who take care of communal areas maintenance etc) and they didn't know who uses it/has the key, but confirmed it is for my (and other owner's) use and said I could have the locks changed.
The door frame had a section cut out over the lock so has clearly been broken into in the past. This section was covered with a wood panel just nailed on so it was easy to prise off and pop the lock in order to gain access. In there I found a fair bit of junk inc some tradesman type tools like a scaffolding tower and even an old honda engine from a lawnmower or similar. I figured it must have been abandoned at some stage seen as no one knew who used the room, so I decided to change the lock and wait a few months to see if anyone enquired about it.
That was a few weeks ago and yesterday I heard someone hammering and looked out the window to see an unfamilar bloke getting into his van and leaving. Needless to say, the lock has been changed. Gutted I didn't hear/spot him in time to speak to him.
While the room isn't strictly mine (it's not marked on my deeds, will have to check to see if it's mentioned at all) I'm pretty sure it's not his to use and he's certainly not contributing to the communal lighting or ground rent charges etc.
A few of my tools (those used to change the lock) are now locked in the room so I'd like those back at least. Furthermore I don't really want some stranger freeloading storage space I'm entitled to, plus having access to my water, electric and gas supplies.
I don't really want to get confrontational about it as obviously it could cause me hassle given he knows where I live and if he's a scumbag he could target my garage and that contains my Scoob, bike and tools.
Sorry for the long post but I was hoping to get SN's views as to what to do next. Should I break in again and retrieve my tools, then either leave it unlocked for him (he'll know someone has been in as I can't lock it afterwards)? I could add a new lock somewhere else on the frame so it'd be much harder to break in, but think that'd come across as aggressively trying to steal his stuff, which I'm not. Write off the tools and lock as a loss and forget about the room?
Cheers
05 March 2006, 04:55 PM
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Check where you stand with the management company then leave a notice on the door.
If he's not entitled to use the room give him some time to find alternative storage and ask him to move along politely as you need to use the space and are entitled to
AllanB
If he's not entitled to use the room give him some time to find alternative storage and ask him to move along politely as you need to use the space and are entitled to
AllanB
05 March 2006, 04:55 PM
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It does sound a touch trivial but I have been in your situation and it really annoys you! I had a ground floor flat within an old victorian house and the house had a U shaped drive. As you drove outward from the house,just outside my flat, there was a parking space for my flat and you would either find people have parked on the drive so I couldnt get into my spot or better still parked in my spot.
All the other parking was around the back in the court yard so I never wanted my wife (ex now) parking where she would have to walk in the dark from.
I found confrontation worked
All the other parking was around the back in the court yard so I never wanted my wife (ex now) parking where she would have to walk in the dark from.
I found confrontation worked
05 March 2006, 04:59 PM
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Might be worth asking the other 2 owners in your block in case they know....
If none of the other 3 owners know, then go down the sign route and/or change the lock again and this time put a sign up stating if you want access, phone this number (give mobile).
If none of the other 3 owners know, then go down the sign route and/or change the lock again and this time put a sign up stating if you want access, phone this number (give mobile).
05 March 2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by scud8
Technically the guy has committed an offence by breaking and entering your property. Call the police!
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05 March 2006, 09:01 PM
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Do you actually own the flat?
If you do, then its time for new (secure) door and lock, put a note on the door saying that the room has been handed back to the owner by the management company in charge of the block. The goods inside will be disposed of in 60 days unless you are contacted on this number...... (give your mobile) if forced entry is attempted in will be classed as burgulary (or something like that get someone clever to reword it)
Then when he calls you, shift some of the blame on to the management company.
From my experiance even if its some dodgy freeloader (such as someone parking in your parking space) they ALWAYS think they are in the right. They wont just say "oh sorry mate didnt know it was yours, the old flat tentant said I could use it"
They will want to get in to a big argument with reasons why they should be able to use it (even though it doesnt belong to them) etc etc
If this starts say that you would be prepared to rent it out at something like £400 month if you can get approval from the management company but you would rather not as its due to be fitted out with some shelves and racks in 1/2/3/4 weeks time.
If you do, then its time for new (secure) door and lock, put a note on the door saying that the room has been handed back to the owner by the management company in charge of the block. The goods inside will be disposed of in 60 days unless you are contacted on this number...... (give your mobile) if forced entry is attempted in will be classed as burgulary (or something like that get someone clever to reword it)
Then when he calls you, shift some of the blame on to the management company.
From my experiance even if its some dodgy freeloader (such as someone parking in your parking space) they ALWAYS think they are in the right. They wont just say "oh sorry mate didnt know it was yours, the old flat tentant said I could use it"
They will want to get in to a big argument with reasons why they should be able to use it (even though it doesnt belong to them) etc etc
If this starts say that you would be prepared to rent it out at something like £400 month if you can get approval from the management company but you would rather not as its due to be fitted out with some shelves and racks in 1/2/3/4 weeks time.
05 March 2006, 09:37 PM
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Thanks for the replies.
GC8, yes it's in Sheffield, are you my cheeky freeloader?!
Yes, I own the leasehold to the flat and garage; I assume the management co own the store room, they inherited/bought the freehold from another co and didn't seem to be sure themselves
The guy must think he has some entitlement to the room I think, he'd have to be damned cheeky to break my lock and fit his own otherwise. Will contact the management co again and the occupants on the other side of the block (even though it's nothing to do with them as they have their own laundry/store room), then leave a note.
GC8, yes it's in Sheffield, are you my cheeky freeloader?!
Yes, I own the leasehold to the flat and garage; I assume the management co own the store room, they inherited/bought the freehold from another co and didn't seem to be sure themselves
The guy must think he has some entitlement to the room I think, he'd have to be damned cheeky to break my lock and fit his own otherwise. Will contact the management co again and the occupants on the other side of the block (even though it's nothing to do with them as they have their own laundry/store room), then leave a note.
06 March 2006, 08:57 AM
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Check with the other residents, then (if it belongs to neither ) ask the management to place a notice on the door asking for the contents to be removed by a fixed date stating that if they are not removed by then, someone will remove them as the room is required for use by a tenant. Any landlord worth his salt should oblige.
Yve
Yve
06 March 2006, 12:44 PM
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Thanks for the advice.
I've spoken to the management co and they don't have a clue who this bloke is. They did, however, confirm that the room belongs to them and it's stated in the leases that it's for residents' use. I'll check with all the other residents of the block this evening.
For the time being I've left a note on the door asking him to call me (mobile number, haven't said who I am) and stated the room is owned by the management co and for the use of residents only. Doubt I'm going to hear anything but I'll give it a month before fitting a more secure lock and leaving another note saying he can call me to get his stuff.
Yve, as the management co are not my landlords as such, I never expected them to do anything (they'd charge me for it if they did!)
I've spoken to the management co and they don't have a clue who this bloke is. They did, however, confirm that the room belongs to them and it's stated in the leases that it's for residents' use. I'll check with all the other residents of the block this evening.
For the time being I've left a note on the door asking him to call me (mobile number, haven't said who I am) and stated the room is owned by the management co and for the use of residents only. Doubt I'm going to hear anything but I'll give it a month before fitting a more secure lock and leaving another note saying he can call me to get his stuff.
Yve, as the management co are not my landlords as such, I never expected them to do anything (they'd charge me for it if they did!)
06 March 2006, 12:59 PM
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Someone in the flats must know who the bloke is ? is he a relative of someone there ?. Cant see some guy off the street just deciding to start using a storeroom in a random block of flats without at least knowing one of the tennants.
06 March 2006, 01:16 PM
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Take his stuff and sell it, proceeds to be kept in lieu of rent he should have paid. Spend the money on a steel door to protect your stuff from revenge attacks in future
06 March 2006, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard_P
Better check with a lawyer - any on here?
are your meters in there? you say you didn;t want the guy using the room to have access to your services? if your services are in there, the situation may be a little different and you'd need to look into your rights in more detail
do you have the office copy entry (ie a copy of the registered leasehold title)?
06 March 2006, 02:57 PM
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Thanks Richard. Yes I do have a copy of the leasehold title. It has a plan of the building with a red ouline around it (and its parking spaces) so including the store room. The plan for my flat has my garage outlined but the store room (or meter room as it is marked) is not outlined, but then neither is the hallway, and obviously I am entitled to use that. The electricity meters are not in the store room in fact, they are under the stairs in the hall. The gas meters are on the outside of the store room in one of those white plastic boxes. The gas pipes and water pipes go through into the store room though. There is a working electric light in there and quite possibly sockets somewhere (only had a brief look amongst his stuff as it's all proped up against the walls) not sure who's circuit these are on.
The only thing I have found after a quick glance through the lease is:
"...Granted to the Lessee....
(2) The right (in common with all others entitled to the like right) at all times and for all purposes incidental to the occupation and enjoyment of the demised premises but not further or otherwise to use the entrance stairs halls staircases passages landings ways and other common parts within The Development which lead to and serve the demised premises"
To me, this suggests I am entitled to use the store room as it serves my property, as the management co have stated. Unfortunately it doesn't define who "all others entitled" are, but the management co say only the residents of the block are entitled, although weren't sure which 2 flats share which store rooms. Either way, 'cheeky bloke' has witheld my entitlement so is definitely in the wrong at some level, even if another resident or previous resident gave them a key. Would appreciate your thoughts
The only thing I have found after a quick glance through the lease is:
"...Granted to the Lessee....
(2) The right (in common with all others entitled to the like right) at all times and for all purposes incidental to the occupation and enjoyment of the demised premises but not further or otherwise to use the entrance stairs halls staircases passages landings ways and other common parts within The Development which lead to and serve the demised premises"
To me, this suggests I am entitled to use the store room as it serves my property, as the management co have stated. Unfortunately it doesn't define who "all others entitled" are, but the management co say only the residents of the block are entitled, although weren't sure which 2 flats share which store rooms. Either way, 'cheeky bloke' has witheld my entitlement so is definitely in the wrong at some level, even if another resident or previous resident gave them a key. Would appreciate your thoughts
29 March 2006, 12:17 PM
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Sorry to disappoint you Pete 
Some progress today: 'cheeky bloke' found my note and rang me, he actually turns out to be quite a decent bloke. He's a builder just using the room to store some stuff as a stop-gap. The old dear downstairs had told him she owns it and he could use it - she's never here so I didn't get the chance to ask her in the past few weeks, I did ask her about a year ago and she said she knew nothing about it!
As the bloke seems like a nice chap making an honest living and he doesn't want it indefinitely, we agreed on £10/month rent and he'll clear it when he's finished with it. I'm going to be too busy to do anything with it for the next few months anyway so it makes no difference to me; if he keeps using it for more than a few months I'll put the rent up to something more realistic.
Some progress today: 'cheeky bloke' found my note and rang me, he actually turns out to be quite a decent bloke. He's a builder just using the room to store some stuff as a stop-gap. The old dear downstairs had told him she owns it and he could use it - she's never here so I didn't get the chance to ask her in the past few weeks, I did ask her about a year ago and she said she knew nothing about it!
As the bloke seems like a nice chap making an honest living and he doesn't want it indefinitely, we agreed on £10/month rent and he'll clear it when he's finished with it. I'm going to be too busy to do anything with it for the next few months anyway so it makes no difference to me; if he keeps using it for more than a few months I'll put the rent up to something more realistic.
