Fuzz

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...sunday-opinion

Discuss.

Andy

turboman786

Yawn....

Fuzz

Very constructive turboman.

So these kids have been nurtured and brought up in a free thinking world then??
http://www.compfused.com/directlink/903/

Andy

Brendan Hughes

Are his lovely right-wing evangelical Christian facts correct?

"Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia."

Sorry, I thought that was a territory dispute asking for independence for Chechnya. Didn't think religion had anything to do with it.

Anyway, he's writing from the US. Hardly the land of balanced, well brought up people.

Brendan Hughes

****, why did I reply? I just left SN for a week to get back to the real world.

davyboy

While there are good muslims around, the old saying;

"Where ever there is trouble you will find Muslims" is just so, so true.

Dracoro

You'll also find christians and jews etc.

davyboy

They'll be the target!

Kyl3cook

It may have been, but that doesn't explain why they were reciting the quran whilst simultaneously butchering children!

What I do understand is not all muslims are like this (of course), but a lot (and I mean in relation to other religions) use their faith as an excuse/reason for doing attrocities...whether this is the religons fault or the fault of the individual, I really don't know. I suspect it has a lot to do with the religion.

I lived in the Middle East for 12 years (Bahrain), so I can safely say that a lot of the Arabic people are very warm and caring, and perfectly nice, however you get the bad eggs....it seems Islam just has more of them, which is a sad state of affairs.

GC8

The politically correct trump card prevents these questions from being addressed. Racist!

O.G.

Watching that breaks my heart. if kids that young are spouting this kind of crap then what chance does anyone have?
it's this brainwashing that purpetuates these problems.(spelling isn't my strong point)

It's time this planet got a kick in the *** such as an event where the world needs to work together to solve the problem eg

metior impact,
aliens landing,
labour in for another term

i jest a little but it sucks that on the worldwide stage,leaders of all faiths are not standing together condeming this sort of behavour.

Robbie T

iTrader: (8)

It also strikes me as very disturbing that any religious teachings can be miscontrued (sp) so badly that suicide bombings are commited under the veil of the quaran.

When religious leaders and spokesmen speak up to defend the religion (islam), they say that the scriptures have been taken out of context.
FFS how can there be that much room for mis-interpretation, either the book is not written very clearly or it has some inherent evil undertones

Maybe that question can be answered, i would be genuinely interested if any muslims on the board would have an answer for the five questions as well.

Adam M

I am jewish, but can tell you there are no evil undertones in the Qu'ran, there is a lot of sound moral advice, which tends to guide its followers to lead a decent morally upstanding life.

Attrocities in the name of Islam are imho committed through distorted interpretations in order for some evil people to take over the world slowly.

They prey on the weak minded people who are in need of direction, and use a religion in order to convince them of their divinity.

Islam does not preach murder.

OllyK

Nor, AFAIK, does anyother main stream religion, but there does seem to be an awful lot of it about.

unclebuck

But many carry out murder in it's name. It's also true that you rarely hear any spontanious condemnation of these acts by other muslims unless they are prodded and poked into a response.

Dracoro

Any many carry them out under other religious banners, prevalent throughout history. Islam is merely 'hot topic' at the moment.

I would concur that the leaders and participants of Islam really need to stand up for themselves more in condemming acts of terrorism. However, this is somewhat reliant on the media reporting this. If the media doesn't want people to know about muslim leaders protesting against terrorism/murders etc. then you won't hear about it on television. Propaganda at it's best/worst.

lordretsudo

It is indeed a territory dispute, but the main reason for the war (apart from Chechnya's oil reserves of course...) is religion - the stated aim of the separatists is to establish Chechnya as an independent muslim state, a la Afghanistan under the Taliban. The terrorists responsible for the Beslan siege were radical muslims and Shamil Basayev, the terrorist 'mastermind' behind it and other similar attacks (i.e. the Moscow theatre siege), has strong links to al-qaeda.

CrisPDuk

Actually Davyboy, historically (and presently, if you include Dubya and his cronies) Christian Fundamentalists have been the starters of more wars, and perpetrators of more atrocities than Islam ever has!

CrisPDuk

Why should Islamic leaders speak out and condemn the acts of the terrorists, no one expected, nor demanded that the Pope and his lackeys speak out ot condemn the murderous filth that are the IRA

Dracoro

Of course. However, the catholic religion was hardly under attack from all and sundry was it? The irish problem was more associated with land (although obviously the inhabitants of the land were divided along religious beliefs) whereas the Islamic religion is being wrongly blamed for many acts of terrorism. I'd just thought that they'd defend their religion a bit more (or the media publicise their defence). Wouldn't you defend what you stand for if under the same attack? It's up to muslims anyway, how they want to defend their faith. I'm just curious to know what they think.

RedFive

In short, a lot of defending & condemning has happened, and the press didn't always give it much attention. Secondly, because people constantly shout "condemn it, you ugly religious nutcases", they, funnily enough, don't feel that eager anymore. How many peeps on here know that the first people that went on the streets in Paris to try to calm down the riots were, in fact, muslims ?

BTW: did any of you "condemn" the use of cluster bombs, phosphor bombs and napalm that was used by "your troops" in Fallujah ?

TheBigMan

Muslims innit.

Kyl3cook

There's a difference between Fallujah and 9/11

scoobydooooo

i hate it when people do this !! discuss !!!! , you bleedin discuss it , why start a thread and then **** off and let others do the dirty work ?? chicken !!

Abdabz

Was this out of the Koran? Seem to remember it being spoken prior to 3 grizzly deaths in the 1990's showed all over the world at the time:

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, and you will know my name is The Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Ah no my mistake it was out of the bible... Ezekiel 25:17...

the moose

Have you actually read the Bible? I defy you to find that passage in there.

Kyl3cook

where in that does it say it's brothers aren't of another religion?

Whereas...

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)


Anyone can spout quotes as I have just done. I quote these from a simple google search. I know nothing about the quran, but I do know that from your post above, I question your attitude/mentality.

Abdabz

Ooooo get you you da man ..... Is this out of the bible?

Give me the power of man's red flower
So I can be like you

You!
I wanna be like you
I wanna talk like you
Walk like you, too
You'll see it's true
Someone like me
Can learn to be
Like someone like me
Can learn to be
Like someone like you
Can learn to be
Like someone like me!

Nope didnt think it was either, but as long as one person reading it has a smile thats all that matters... More fun than having a massdebate on such serious issues on a Friday

AsifScoob

LOL!

Robbie T

iTrader: (8)

If what kyle has quoted is really written in the koran then OMFG, i was told by a sikh bloke once that muslims (if well read) should try to convert non muslims to their way of thinking.

It seems that the terrorists aren't taking the 'holy' book too much out of context.
If the quotes are not correct i am happy to retract this statement, please prove me wrong