mart360

following on from the 12year old being slashed in school, it has been suggested that some feel that the schools are not responsible for applying corporal punishment, and that the total responsibility is with the parents.

i would hazard a guess that most of us have at some time in there schooling life have had some form of corporal punishment, the questions is , how many times, and did it deter, shape you into a different person

Mart

multiple selections can be used

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

mart we voted the same you didnt goto gell too did you

I wouldnt say it shaped my future, this is the first time I have thought about it in 20 years

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

we had none at our school, it had stopped by then.


But... if it had been there i would not have been half as naughty or rude to the teacher, which in my opinion would have provided me with a more beneficial time at school.

If i was asked if my sons schools could use mild forms of corporal punisment, then i would give my blessing.


Cookie

DJ73

We had the cane and when we moved to the middle school a leather strap and the head made us chose between your hand or backside

Fuzz

I was a fairly good pupil by all accounts, but I do remember getting the sharper edge of the ruler accross the back of the fingers in front of the class after an unknown misdmeanor once.
That was in Primary school.
Also had the board rubber and chalk flung at me for not concentrating and that was by the headmaster (he teached in the primary school too )

I dont think one single event like that would have caused me to tow the line or stay on the straight and narrow. I do feel it was how I was brought up as a whole, strict parents, grandparents and teachers form the basis of "the right direction" to take, Also not hanging around with the local village idiots probably helped me stay out of trouble
I actually feel it was MY choice to be a sensible lad, this may have been because of the above but there is definite feel inside me of what is right and wrong.


Andy

Leslie

Proper upbringing should start in the home of course and that should include corporal punishment as necessary. It should be given only when it really means something with regard to the wrongdoing and it should hurt enough to be a proper deterrent. This can also be with the threat of deprivation of other things of importance to the child for lesser offences.

The Schools should also have the full right to use corporal punishment as well as other types of punishment or they will have no authority over or respect from the children as we are indeed seeing now. How on earth can a school be expected to teach which is their major job if the have no control over the children?

Children are naturally initially rebellious towards authority and they have to be taught how to respect it and also just normal discipline. They have to realise that they cannot do just what they want with no regard to others if we want to have a well ordered and non anarchic society.

If you feel that it is wrong to curb a child's natural agressiveness and greed right from the beginning then you must expect the dreadful attitudes and seriously bad actions that we are seeing today to get worse and eventually lead to complete loss of control.

The politically correct faction have got a great deal to answer for!

Les

AlfasudQV

Had Cane, Slipper, Chalk Duster, (usually thrown) Chalk (usually thrown) and A Nineteen stone metalwork teacher that picked pupils up by their feet held them upside down and asked if they would like their heads kicked in. It basically worked at the time and generally stopped whatever was happening. Half of us then grew up to be tree hugging lefties, the other half muscle bound Grant mitchell ultimate force types Thought it was hilarious that my mate would be one minute mouthing off in front of class only to be sent crashing to earth by a board duster hitting him in the head. Cant remember what made us laugh the most? my mate mouthing off or the teacher employing such a missile that left a chalk trail in across the the room.
Im a tree hugging wont eat paper because its cruel type, but I reckon they couldnt even find the teachers to do this today, even if they wanted to. I am currently crying with laughter remembering this Catholic comprehensive, By the way I Am 40 next year so I am allowed to get all sentimental and victor meldrew. about this. Oh and that was jus comp. Infants school was all Nuns with beating sticks. I would cry with laughter to see the hard 'Hoodies' that roam my estate deal with the Nuns !!!!!!!!!!!!! with laughter

T4molie

I er had the ruler across the hand a few times in my schooling career

And the cane once! The once was more than enough for me to think "I don't want that happening again"

Andy

OllyK

We had the cane, I never received it - it acted as a healthy deterrent!

Leslie

AlfasudQV,

As a tree hugging wont eat paper chap, what is your answer to all these hoodies and their nasty mates then?

Les

Big Den

it was always the leather belt (strap) in Scotland - not an option in your poll!!

Dr Hu

Never had any corporal punishment BUT it was there, and that was a big deterrent!

These days its NOT there so there is NO deterrent.

The kids know they can't be touched, and all kids push boundaries to see how far they can go, and unfortunately in our schools now there are no boundaries anymore.

AlfasudQV

Oh, wouldnt hurt a tree. However have no real qualms about replacing Asbos and throwing the Hoodies to the Nuns See how hard they are then

fast bloke

The policy that had at our school was that if you geot caught stepping out of line they would phone your Da at work and get him to come in straight away. They would then proceed to beat the hands off you with a leather strap before sending you home for the day. When your Da got you home he would would be raging that he has been called out of work, so you got kicking number 2. I can't remember anyone ever having to get sent home twice....... so yes - it worked

Dream Weaver

Our English teacher used to sneak up behind you and hit you on the head with some of those metal paper scissors - he held the blades and whacked you with the handles and it absolutely smarted like hell

PE teacher used to throw blackboard erasers at us.

It did deter us from playing up in class.

SiPie

Yup ....

Six of the best

most weeks

never did me any harm

Flatcapdriver

In theory our teachers had a range of items for beating the hell out of us, which theoretically ramped up the worse the crime from a plimsol to a jokari bat via the cane and slipper. The reality was that it was the teacher's weapon of choice rather than the deed itself which dictated the type of beating but I remember it being a point of pride to come out of the room without showing any sign of pain in front of your mates.

I can still remember one ******* who used to lob crayons at us if we got too verbal which used to hurt like hell if it clipped you on the head and although he had a good aim it was a miracle that he never got anyone in the eye.

AlfasudQV

Oh, forgot the 'twist the ear until your knees buckle method' Seem to remember that was the Welsh teacher and Metalwork teachers favourite. Oh am cryin gwith laughter again at the memory.

King RA

Apart from yer bum looking like a baboons for the rest of your life!!

SiPie

Interesting theory, especially seeing as the belt was given over your hand

Bum fixation going on ?

dpb

Cane across the knuckles for throwing ice, thankfully a fairly half-hearted attempt - a habitual offender had been in before me for the same.
The worst came before the head for the full treatment the severity of which could be judged by the time of day - you didnt want to catch him in the afternoon after he'd a a few drams.............Got the sack for it a year after i left .
I heard afterwards his staff got far worse treatment ....

Tiggs

be interested in how many of the "pro punishment" people here have kids over the age of 10....ie. whos actually dished out the punishment and seen the results.

you will find that punishment is punishment and kids will just except whatever it is as a result of their offence - when i was at school getting dragged to the Head was the worse it could get....no one though "well thats not so bad so i'll go ahead with my crime".....they either did or did not care about being punsihed- the type of punishment did not matter.

say you have a 4 year old who gets- at worse a smack on the legs and a 9 year old who gets a slipper - do you think the 4 year old will be worse as he gets less pain? do you think the 9 year old would GET worse if you downgrade to a leg smack???

just look at the US with the death sentance- people/kids either care or dont care about the punishment....not the severity (at least not within the boundries that it can be dished out)

OllyK

I sort of see what you are saying. However, think back to being a kid and motherly statements like "don't play with that you'll hurt yourself". Until you do actually hurt yorself and discover from first hand experience you tend to be pretty blaze about things. The other way we can learn (although not as effective) is from the experience of others. Mum know picking up the hot pan will hurt, she told us, we now start to accept other experiences that Mum passes our way.

Having probably had a slap on the legs as a child and realising that it wasn't very pleaseant (shut up TelBoy ) we would them try to avoid situations that would lead to the same punishment. OK, kids will be kids and it isn't 100%, but it does perhaps act as a momentary pause for thought.

So what do we have now? Kids know there is nothing physically the teachers can do (or the parents now pretty much). OK there is thre "threat" of prison if they do something really bad, but they also know from the experience of others they will probably get numerous cautions before it gets anywhere near a court and even then, they'll get a few more chances. Absolute worst case they get to spend some time watching TV in a young offenders institute for a while. There really are no routes of escalation anymore, the worst we have to offer, isn't really "that bad" especially if these kids are coming from an abusive home, YOI is no worse.

I don't know what the solution is, but teachers (and parents) need to be empowered to discipline their kids in an effective manner (and they should be doing so). There should be routes of escalation. And getting caught by the Police should result in time in court if there is sufficient evidence, it shouldn't be seen as no worse than a ticking off from Mum or Dad.

Big Den

You sensed that aswell

Unless the barsteward missed & got your wrist - OW!!

Den

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Fast Bloke. You made me smile. In Scotland we had the belt, not the cane. These were 2"-3" wide, split up the middle, sometimes twice making three flails, 1/4" thick at least and 18-24" long.
One poor young teacher, Miss Mc Donald, had no control over us and we used to get belted so we could observe her ample anatomy. She was a push over and was clearly the exception. Now some teachers had pet names for their belt and it was heads down and on with the work if there was any threat of of the pet coming out to play.
Three lashes on the hand was a very severe pinishment and few of us could have taken more without tears and tears would have been a major blow to our pride and standing in the hard world we lived in, so getting lashed was a good deterent.
I got lashed six times once, three on each hand, and could not write for two days. Even now my parents don't know because I would have had further punishment.
An odd teacher got the recipient on the wrist. That was BAD and probably deliberate.
Jessie James, head of history was from England and probably one of the few teachers to wear a gown. He had a cricket ball hanging in the hem and he would swing it to good effect at anyone running in the corridor.
None of us thought then or now that it was not a good deterent and a worthwhile part of the armourey, keeping us in order. Part of the problem now is that there are too many wooly thinkers, EU dictats, parents with children out of control and not responsible for them. What chance have teachers got when parents come to school to stick up for little Jonny who behaves in an unsatisfactory manner etc. etc.
Bring back the cane, belt, birch and gallows is what I strongly believe and while we are at it, those that are habitual offenders should be removed from society so that they do not impinge on the rights of the majority to enjoy a peacable and safe environment.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agreed. Corporal punishment is a bad idea IMHO and creates more problems than it solves. That said, we need to loose a lot of this PC crap and compensation culture when it comes to kids in school. Teachers must be able to restrain a pupil if they become physically abusive, but it should be that: physical action taken to restrain, not punish.

If we get to a situation where we're getting into lengthy debates about what is the best form of physical rempremand for kids then we've already failed to some extent, as it's locking the door after the horse has bolted. Kids shouldn't be allowed to get to a stage where thieir morals have deteriorated to the extent where they can do something that is worthy of corporal punishment even in the eyes its advocates! As far as I can see, the problem in UK society is increasingly that no action is taken until something v. bad happens!

NS04

fast bloke

Tiggs - I remember stopping to think "If I do that I will get at least one or more likely two hidings..... so I will give it a miss"

It only works if it is structured though - we had one psycho teacher who gave you 6 of the best for getting latin conjugations wrong, even ones you hadn't met before. He got zero respect. If the teachers were fair and worked on the assumption that you could probably work out what you would get a hiding for, they got respect and didn't actually need to give out that many hidings

Tiggs

all i know is there was no cane when i was at school and i would no more think to swear at a teacher than i would rob a bank. i also know my kids (who are great) react better to a reasoned telling off/loss of benifits than they do a smack.....in fact a smack with them reminds me of the scene in Good Will Hunting when his dad says "belt or the wrench" the kid chooses the wrench"....just to say "F you" thats like my kids! you take great little people and start wacking them and they will just think that.

the problem isnt how you start wacking them about at school...its why are they like that at school. as a parent i can tell you that music, TV crap parents are the issue - not the cane (or lack of). If kids of 8/9/10 hear bitch on Eastenders they will use it at school, if they hear F this and F that on Radio 1 they will use it at school - anyone with kids seen the Tracey Beaker show? Its just a show about a rude little ****e....but it isnt about that at all- she just happens to be a rude ****e- if she were in Grange Hill 25 years ago she would be regarded a nutter....in 2005 shes the norm!

thats at 8/9.....no wonder they are thugs at 13.....does anyone think the cane would have stopped this kid getting cut up?

T

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Quite right too!!! Kids eh!?!?! They've got to learn!!!

People like that have no business in education, in fact they're little better than the kind of bullys that some peeps suggest such punishment should be used against!

NS04

BTW Don't you just love the way that language is used to disguise the reality of the situation "6 of the best" Sounds like a compliation album!!

OllyK

I don't think anybody is advocating indiscriminate use of the cane, nor that it is a cure all. Many of the things you have suggested need to be covered as well, a toolkit of discipline as it were. Where different approaches are used, reason, removal of perks etc. However, at the moment, once you have removed the benefits, there doesn't seem to be anywhere else to go in terms of escalation other than court.