OllyK

Due to the limitations of RF distribution, I've been looking in to AV over CAT5 as a possible alternate solution. The question is, can you run a common AV and Data network or does the AV network have to be physically separate? I can find plenty of info on the hardware for doing the distribution but not much on the infrastructure side.

ChrisB

I put together a spec for a video distribution system for a big warehouse (500,000+ sq feet). We were looking at CAT5 cable runs of 200-300m - is that the sort of thing you are looking at Olly?

rik1471

Isn't CAT5 limited to around 100m? Beyond that you run the risk of signal loss and other complications don't you?

dsmith

Willing to be corrected here.

To be certified as Cat5 - total run needs to under 100m (with certain allowances for each termination)

However you can use cat5 cable for many applications over 100m without issue.

I know several people who run a common Cat5 network in their homes and use these boxes http://www.kat5.tv/index1.html to do the cat5 / av conversion.

ChrisB

For data yes, it's a different kettle of fish for AV.

OllyK

You can do 250m runs of CAT5 with no real problem, however, this is for domestic use so I don't have runs of anything like that magnitude.

Yes this is a audio / video distribution system. I can source servers etc for this so I can combine Sky, TV, FM, DAB, DVD/CD as well as sources such as PC MP3 and MPEG and then shunt it over CAT5 to other devices, so I can have any audio / video anywhere in the house. So far so good.

I even have the CAT5 cable in place as I had a 300m drum of it and thought it may be handy to have Network Access Points in every room and so covered this when we were re-wiring.

The issue is this is a data network and I want to confirm I can run AV and data over the same physical network at the same time. If not, it isn't a big deal, I can isolate the CAT5 at the hub in the loft and remove the uplink from the study and use the CAT5 in the rest of the house as AV and then use wireless for the data. The only downside is that I have run a CAT5 down to the garage (long story) and think I may be struggling with wireless access for there as it's 40m away (without upgrading all my kit - again).

OllyK

Common...so it can be done? Cool!

dsmith

Its not uncommon in HA (Home Automation) circles to run "all sorts of sh*t" down cat5 cables that are in shared ducts.

Some people have had issues with noisy low voltage (12volts DC) interfering but it can usually be fixed with better PSU and ensuring it runs on the right twisted pair.

I personally have 100Mb/s Eth, RS232, IR Extenders, Alarm (inc 12vDC) running on cat5 that runs in the same ducts/channels/trunking and terminates in the same patch frame without any problem.

OllyK

I may be being thick here, but I'm not talking about common ducts, I'm talking about common physical cable. i.e. a hub connected to a backbone and plug both an AV sender unit and Data sender / receiver in the to the same hub. At the other end another hub with the AV receiver unit connected and also a data receiver / sender

ajm

I know nothing about what AV equipment is available, but if you are going to be running them through a hub that is also carrying network traffic then I think you are asking whether you can get video senders etc. that run over TCP/IP?

The installs I have seen that incorporate AV into a CAT5/e/6 network usually just use the wires (i.e. socket to patch panel) and are not physically connected to the switch or anything carrying IP traffic.

dsmith

Well if you convert AV to IP then its data and a very different question.

It then becomes "is the performance of my local data network sufficient for my application". The application being in that case some sort of streaming solution.

That depends entirely on the way you convert to Data (i.e. which streaming solution, what codec etc). How good your LAN hubs/switches are. How many concurrent flows etc. Server performance to deliver the streams etc.

It could be as simple as opening a DVD iso image from a server - and playing it on your local PC. In which case 100Mb/s switched is just fine. If you need 5 clients all simulataneoulsy accessing that dvd image from the same server you may have problems.

If you then run very large file transfers over the same network you may cause unacceptable jitter and delay. etc etc. that cause dropouts.

richardg

we install home networks in all new homes we build. hellerman tyton, smarthouse uk (mitech), smart-e and a few others have all advised us on their kit in the past. As i understand it, you can run both together (obviously not in the same cat5e cables - cat 8 is capable of this though IIRC). HT have what they call a "coolport". It's an adapter for getting AV onto the network. I met an HT Data man at their place in Northampton along with scoobydid (he deals with data, networks and accessories etc) - try PM'ing him as he may be able to offer more advice

OllyK

Cheers all, I wasn't looking to re-encode the AV sources so I guess I'm looking at physical separation. NP - guess I'm up in the loft at the weekend then

ajm

This is why you should always install double the amount of cables/sockets than you originally think you need!

OllyK

Mmm - I kind of did that. You should see the wall in the study, solid line of double power sockets, CAT5, telephone, TV sockets etc. Still running 4 way gang extensions off the power as I don't have enough

David_Wallis

any chance of some links to the kit you have found that will get it over cat5

Cheers

David

chiark

CPC certainly do it mate - search for cat 5 video and you get a few. AV10829 looks interesting?

OllyK

Digging to date has turned up the following:
http://www.kat5.tv/index1.html
http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
http://www.letsautomate.com/11950.cfm?
http://www.mauvecom.co.uk/index.html
http://www.vtx.co.uk/video/sourcerer.htm
http://www.opus-technologies.co.uk
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/category/18
http://www.sccdistribution.co.uk/
http://www.home-control.co.uk
http://www.minicom.com/av.htm
http://www.exterity.co.uk/products.html

It certainly isn't cheap compared to the RF option, which you can do for £50 or so, but it doesn't suffer the same quality issues.