pslewis

Oh, yes it is!!

Allowing for inflation!!

So, there you have it ............

Pete

Andrew Dixon

Prove it!

pslewis

47p duty in 2000 .............. 47p duty now - FACT

VAT is the same % - FACT

So, allowing for inflation .... the TAX take is LESS than it was in 2000!!

Nothing more to say really, is there ....................

Long live New Labour!!

Pete

Sbradley

This is from the same BBC story that quotes fuel duty in France as higher than Germany with a lower price per litre, then?

It has to be the most spin adjusted piece of reporting I've seen since the WMD fiasco.

How can you tell if a politician is lying? In this case when they preface what they say with "In real terms" or similar (and that includes "Allowing for inflation")

SB

pslewis

You just can't take it can you??

Even when it smacks you right in the face!!

Pete

Hanslow

VAT is the same %age, but has actually risen in price. If you are comparing percentages then you probably have a case, if you are comparing £s and p then you haven't

suprabeast

VAT maybe the same percentage, but since the price of fuel has gone up , the value of VAT has gone up with it accordingly, so that aint true

Hanslow

Anyway Pete, I thought you were leaving Scoobynet for good (or so you said a while back)?

Not that it'd be the same without you

pslewis

I said I would leave unless there was an overwhelming tide of opinion that I should stay ............ there was and I am

Pete

Sbradley

Actually your maths doesn't work.

Assuming (dodgy but I'll go with it) that your claim about duty staying the same is correct. We know that VAT has remained at the same percentage.

So net cost of fuel would have to have remained the same for the total tax to stay the same.

And it hasn't has it?

So 17.5% of, say 15p net cost is less than 17.5% of 23p net cost.

So we pay more tax now than we did in 2000 - FACT

Oh, and less of it gets spent on the road than it did in 2000 as well - FACT

Can't take it? No, I would be happy to accept that our democratically elected government is doing something well. Truly. I just don't see any actual evidence that they are managing the country well or delivering on their promises. Does that make them different to any other government? Probably not. But what does differentiate them is their propensity to govern by spin and propaganda rather than by anything useful like relevant, pertinent or even logical policies.

SB

Brit_in_Japan

The price of a litre is more now than in 2000.

Fuel duty: unchanged, 47.1p/litre
VAT: % unchanged, but since the price of the raw material has gone up so much, so the total VAT collected has gone up.
% tax: as a percentage of the total cost of a litre, the tax has decreased
total tax: as a whole, the amount of tax per litre has gone up

Pick whichever statistic suits your arguments!

darts_aint_sport

The government is receiving £24billion more in road tax/fuel/etc. than in 1975, yet spending on roads/public transport/etc. has fallen by 5 billion. It's almost funny how crap the situation is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...cing/img/3.jpg

davegtt

as a percentage its gone down as a real figure its gone up. Granted its not gone up by much though.

Its all relative though. the only part of the tax thats risen is the VAT which rises with any increase on ANY product in the country. not just petrol, so I dont see what the fuss is about

Doesnt matter anyhow, whine all you want, nothing will change, this week has just proved that

unclebuck

OK - so now we've established that lewis has posted yet another lie (actually 2 lies) can't this thread just be locked (or preferably vaped) as it is embarrassing to read.

Dracoro

The revenue from tax & duty has risen by a factor of 1.5% (approx) per year over 5 years. That's LESS than the rate of inflation. So in 'real terms' the revenue from fuel duty & vat is LESS than it was 5 years ago.

This is very SIMPLE economics. Please study it a little if it doesn't make sense, buy a calculator if you really need to.

Obviously the total fuel cost has risen way above inflation but the government haven't got their hands on it.

imlach

I think as more and more people have understood the FACTS about fuel duty & taxation that I & others have presented on here, they now understand more clearly that the government is not to blame for the recent high prices....

...hopefully the message has got through at last....as proven by the pathetically low turnouts at their "protests".

The debate over the levels of fuel duty over the last decade is for another day...the point was, the recent grumblings have been centered around the current high prices which I reiterate, have very little to do with the UK government.

ajm

Personally my gripe is (and always has been) with the prices over the last several years.... just because it is convenient to blame someone else for the very latest rise in price doesn't mean the government aren't taking too much tax because we all know they are!

Would you be ardently defending them if we had chosen to complain about it 6 months ago? It wasn't acceptable then and it isn't acceptable now!

davegtt

But why would you have complained 6 months ago? again the government havent changed anything. theyre just sat looking at us and laughing, aslong as people pay it, they'll charge it. Simple way of getting round it is simply not buying petrol at all.... less petrol sold, the more they'll feel it. a strike of everyone leaving their cars at home for a whole week would probably give the government a better idea of how much money they'll lose....

What about Duty on **** and Booze, nobody complains about that?

imlach

Who decides the tax is "too much" though?

...and please don't come out with the usual "they earn more from motorists than they put back in" argument. Tax revenue is not spent in such a simplistic way. The revenue from cigarettes is not ALL put into the NHS for example. Just like the revenue from fuel duty is not ALL put into transport.

PS I'm not defending the government at all. I'm merely correcting people who prefer to solely blame them for the recent rises in fuel costs. Which is factually wrong.

paulr

Of course that depends on what you expect from a responsible governemt.The average man in the street saves when his income is high and then uses his savings to subsidise the times when his income is low.Its not unreasonable to expect a government to save a little when times are good,so that when we have an oil crisis they could use some of the savings to cut fuel duty on a temporary basis.In that senario the government is to blame.

scoobydooooo

it was too bleedin high then , so it's still too bleedin high

mart360

The audience is hushed as his right honerable Tony Blair takes to the podium..


Tony slowly reaches down and bring his arms up in a gesture of triumph...


And reveals New Labours next weapons for the millenium..

On his left and right hands are glove puppets, This one says Tony waving His left hand at the auidience , is PS* and this one says Tony is *mlach, waving his right...

unfortunalty says Tony, they were ment to be ying and yang, an opposite to each other , a sort of check and balance to each other, but as we are the party of spin and unclearness, they both spout rhetoric, with no one to stop them..


Tony then brings both hands together and PS* & *mlach twitter away to there hearts content....



M

pslewis

And where is your inflation factoring??

Holy **** some people are thick!!

Pete

pslewis

And some are barking mad!!!

Pete

imlach

Well, you may like to ask what they did with the £22bn they made from the sale of 3G licences a few years back

Given the deficit is now £36bn

CLSII

Personally I'm really glad that petrol is down in price "in real terms"

Otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford all the other stealth taxes this government has introduced.

Can't wait for the forthcoming "review of council tax" No doubt paying an extra £1000 a year will also be down in "real terms" as well.

God bless 'em one and all I say





irony mode off

stormyuklondon1

his lips move.

Leslie

As they say, dont feed the troll.

Its just PSL acting like an infant and shouting for attention again!

Les

matt neil

whilst we argue the merits of whether or not we pay more or less VAT, the following is a fact and a con! mr brown is doing double taxing...

http://www.realcaradvice.co.uk/archi..._tax.html#more

can't believe that's even legal!!

imlach

Same applies to cigarettes, alcohol, etc. It would only be a 'con' if it wasn't clear. It is perfectly clear that VAT applies to the total selling price of a product you purchase.

This 'con' applied LONG before Gordon Brown was in power! Has been such ever since VAT was introduced in fact.