KiwiGTI

What an absolute disaster the whole thing is turning out to be. I mean US/UK have completely screwed the country up.

Saddam should be reinstated as a hero.

Taff107

.........

KiwiGTI

10's of thousands dead, a country that is facing a three way split.

US forces withdrawing from next year, Iraq now on brink of a civil war, Oil rich Shia Muslims in the south creating an Islamic State, Sunni Arabs in the centre with nothing and an oil rich Kurdistan in the north.

The secular Iraq was stable and better under Saddams regime. New constitution is proposing the whole country under Islamic Sharia law, just what the world needs (and Iraq's women for that matter)

moses

kiwi did u know before the invasion besides saddam doing atrocities the iraqi people as a whole had not divided themselves, shia, sunni's and christians were living like brothers and sisters, the usa came in and divided them into groups

i saw a documentary on the cnn about it, that division in sects didnt exist till the usa divided them into groups

i saw this article a fine good read

the country dont need saddam needs a good person who can unite, gaddafi style of leader but a proper one not a nutter like him, what i mean is he had a quality to unite libyan muslims, brown, black and other races as one nation and brotherhood

have a read at this

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17924

Leslie

It is certainly an enormous mess and I agree with Moses that they need a strong but well intentioned leader to get a grip of the situation.

Don't see how western style government would ever work for them.

The danger is that an even worse dictator than Saddam might get into power.

Les

Suresh

Shame on me for clicking that link. I wasn't expecting a balanced view and not surprisingly, I didn't get one. To quote from the 'fine good read'

"The plan began working around 9/11/2001. A new Pearl Harbor type event was staged. The American people were manipulated by the events of that day and the spin of the corporate press that became the propaganda mouthpiece of the corporate/military/government complex"

Love the tagline of the site "...where truth prevails", when in fact they peddle a pile of biased toss wherein fantasy and conjecture mascarade as fact. That you read and believe such sh*t is up to you, but posting such unsubstantiated garbage here makes my blood boil.




That said, I agree with the sentiment that the place actually needs a strong, benevolent dictator and probably not democracy. That step would be too much, too soon.


Suresh

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I think Greenday summed up America in just one line of there song "American Idot"

"One Nation controlled by the media"

If you have not heard it then I reckon you should download it and listen to it then you wil l fully understand America.

Angry

Suresh, have you read the "Project for the new American Century"?

It was written by a republican think tank and stated that America needed another Pearl Harbour style attack* to get the people behind the Governments military plans, it also details how America needs to fight "simultaneous multi theatre wars" in the coming years to give the country direction.

I would read what is being said by those in power before you go dismissing out of hand his comments. It is freely available on the web.

Suffice to say reading it is damn worrying.

There is alot more going on that alot of people realise, and this is mainly thanks(in america at least) to the media being nothing more than the Press Office for the Gov't.

A Gov't Press Release is given to the media and it is reported word for word, there is no longer any investigation within the US mainstream media, which totally goes against the free press ideals that the US was founded upon.

WRT to 9/11, why was the rubble quickly removed at Gulliani's request and placed under armed guard, before either being destroyed, melted down or or sold to china and north korea?

Then later on when Guliani was questioned about it, he said that he didnt realise that the rubble would have been needed for the investigation, chyeah right

Don't take my word for it, take it upon yourself to investigate whats going on , go where the information leads and see where you end up.

*Remember Roosevelt had full and prior knowledge that Pearl Harbour was going to happen, he knew at the time that without a direct attack on the American homeland, the people would never back Americas entry to the war.

Flatcapdriver

Bollocks. Try telling that to the Kurds and then find out which sect Hussein was a member of and then work out who was carrying out atrocities in his name.You do spout some crap sometimes.

As for Iraq it is a mess that will inevitably end in civil war but that is what happens when countries are illegally invaded and once public opinion goes against the Government it ends up in a rush to get out with inevivtable consequences.

Jerome

Er, not quite. As FCD said, the Kurds were hardly Saddam's favourites. Also, the Shia muslims in the south were living in abject poverty. For those reasons alone, Saddam had to go. There has always been internal conflict in Iraq, but somehow they have all managed to live under some sort of uneasy truce. Under Saddam, any rebellion was dealt with very severely - witness the massacre of Kurds after the Gulf War.

Saddam had to go, but unfortunately the Bush/Blair double act managed to screw the the job up.

dsmith

You really do live in a fantasy world. To accuse a nation that has existed for only a couple of hundred years of being the cause for all religous/ethnic tensions in Iraq is pretty harsh. After all as I'm sure you've mindlessly cut and paste in other threads the Islam Shia/Sunni split dates back to the 600s.

I dont think the kurds considered themselves "living like brothers and sisters" with the rulling sunni.

moses

pls where did i mention kurds their in the north arent they ?

and the post was about the people not saddam if u read about it, didnt i mention besides saddam, saddam commited atrocities the iraqi people as a whole never ever did

i only mentioned shia, sunni and arab christians

see thats where the problem is u just dont wanna read the post and make up something else and post about that.

saddam was an evil tyrant for sure and u always hear bull**** stories he hated jews haha, did u know the iraqi jews were protected by saddam as were the christians and no one could harm them but still a tyrant for sure

and the kurdish massacre was started by the usa when they supported saddam vs iran and said theirs gonna be a kurdish problem in the north and they will be helping iran, something has to be done.

well he did he slaughtered them that time and the usa didnt complain till he slaughtered them in the gulf war vs the usa

dsmith

Does "the whole" not include the north then in "moses world" ?

moses

first of all who mentioned kurds

yes kurds dont have a problem living with sunni's at all, never have, plus u got it wrong haha

kurds r sunnis majority of them u mean to say kurd and arab, iraqi sunnis and and shia's r arabs, iranians arent arabs but persians a different race.

kurds r sunni sect but a different people

who was the greatest warrior of islam in the hsitory of the crusades a SUNNI KURD yes A SUNNI KURD called saladdin ayubi, yes u heard of him the thorn in the crusaders conquest plus if u seen the kingdom of heaven u would know

the leader of sunnis and shia muslims was a sunni kurd

so dont get it mixed up, kurd is different its not a sect but A people.

who's land was taken away and the usa and britain were happy for kemal ataturk to carry on persecuting them and as did saddam when it suited them

and yes kurds do consider themselves as our brothers and sisters haha, i cant believe this, u need education and to wake up and smell the coffee

do u know how many kurds their r in glasgow alot let me tell u, eat together and go to the mosque together with the sunni and wahabi and non sectarian muslims

by the way dsmith, didnt we make a deal coz u dont like reading my posts and i will stop talking to u, but why do u still read my posts and also try to get me to respond

the deal was fair for u, so your lil mind wont get disturbed

moses

u quoted me out of context their, pls post the full thread so i may read what i said

moses

i made a deal with u so u aint going by it, i will stop answering your questions and put u in the ignore list from now on if thats fine

coz u still butt in all the time

so u r now on the ignore list

and happy reading

Flatcapdriver

Nobody is quoting you out of context. Its just that you have set yourself up as the arbiter of all things ethnic and refuse to recognise that other people have differing opinions which are based on fact, whereas you continuously trot out the same tripe which is poorly dressed up anti-Western propaganda.

Take your own advice and read other people's posts and then have a constructive debate rather than twisting everything to suit your own narrow agenda.

dsmith

And I differentiated by qualifying "ruling sunni" as opposed to the Kurdish sunni. unless of course I've got it all wrong and it was the kurds who were ruling Iraq all along ?

dsmith

ffs - its half a page above, I'd quoted it once and you'd only posted it a few minutes earlier.

So much drivel - so little memory.

moses

well bud the ignore list works well, use it for me if u wish

coz i will sure use it on u too

have a nice week, first time i used it was against ds, quite good actually

Suresh

You have evidence of this of course, or is this just another baseless and ridiculous conspiracy theory?

dsmith

ignoring people who dont share your views is hardly going to advance the understanding of islam my us non-religous folk is it now ?

I still dont know if "the iraqi people as a whole" inlcudes the northern kurdish sunni, or whether in moses world they're no longer part of iraq at all.

Angry

Like I said, if it actually intesests you go look for it yourself, dont take my word for it

I would hope you are downloading the NAC report as we speak? If not here is the link http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf

Flatcapdriver

Given the amount of people you threaten to put on your ignore list, I'm surprised you have any posts to read.

bren.wright

Religion causes so many problems around the world, if everybody had no religion maybe everybody would get along!

As for Iraq, my brother is in the armed forces and has already done one tour of Iraq. He is due to go back there in around 3 months time! The country is so unstable at the minute, there are countless bombings killing british soldiers everyday that you never hear about.

The Americans are the cause of the unstability, their tactics are to just rampage through towns and cities. The british forces are much more respected by the general public because they make the effort to talk to the locals and are not seen rampaging through towns guns blazing like the Americans.

Although the situation is bad now, if America and the UK pull out now then the situation will become 10x worse, the Iraqi forces do not have the strength to stop the extremists.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

And Moses please write proper English will you, this text speak you keep using and the fact that you constantly miss out words only serves to make you look like a **** which I don't think you actully are judging by your knowledge on certain subjects.

Angry

At least if we do our boys wont continue to be blown to smithereens in the name of "Anti-Terrorism" or "American Corporate Imperialism" as I like to call it.

And before anyone jumps on that comment, take a look at who has to gain financially from the oil and rebulding of Iraq.

EBRWRX

This is crux of the issue. Why try to impose Western beliefs on a nation and a set of tribes/religions/beliefs that have no interest in embracing them. We're despised because of this very point in Pakistan/Afghanistan and still sit here scratching our heads wondering why suicide bombers are now appearing in London.

I disagree with terrorism in any way, shape or format. I don't condone, but I can understand the hatred. I am neither religious nor political, though my views on life etc would probably be considered to the right of centre.

Three obvious thoughts come to mind.

1) Oil - No oil = No Iraq War 1 or 2 - simple as that
2) Israel - US/UK support is inconsistent with its global policy towards terrorism
3) China - The superpower in the making. I can only hope for all our sakes US protectionism and belief that there's is the true way above all others changes sooner rather than later. Next time around the only Cold War we will be experiencing will be caused by the mushroom clouds blocking out the sun.

Angry

Well said EB, well said.

Suresh

I did. Wikipedia says this about FDR and Pearl Harbor:

"It has become a staple of postwar revisionist history that Roosevelt knew all about the planned attack on Pearl Harbor but did nothing to prevent it so that the U.S. could be brought into the war as a result of being attacked. There is no evidence to support this theory."

Maybe you could find something that proves it is true on the 'where truth prevails' website??

Good weekend.

Suresh