zoog

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4163484.stm



Some valid points that need to be said.

Petem95

Does make some very good points indeed, and nice to see hes not affraid to air his comments.

This is very true; "Lord Tebbit also criticised Islam for holding back progress in countries where it was the dominant faith".

7 Foot

Bang on the money IMO.

The cricket point he raises does soun quiet trivial at first but - a few years ago when Pakistan had beaten England, I remember cars driving around Chesham in Bucks full of relatively young Pakistanis honking their horns, waving the Pakistan flag and hurling abuse at white pedestrians or anyone white who was within earshot.


Was pretty ugly.

The Zohan

I think he raises some interesting points, i wonder how long it will be before he is branded a racist.

IMHO
I f you go to live in a country you should learn the language, abide by the laws, respect the indigenous populations relogious and other beliefs - not necessarily adopt them and fit in as part of the community.

If you cannot meet these simple criteria then you should leave and go to a country that does fit your criteria.

KiwiGTI

I look forward to British expats around the world changing their allegiances to the local teams. All the Brits in Spain should stop supporting the English football team.

7 Foot

Yep, it's as simple as that.

Abdabz

Absoultely spot on Mr Habgood squire, as was Sir Tebbit - a true political god.

7 Foot

It makes no difference who is doing it where.

Being openly hostile to the people you live with in this situation can't be justified.

There's a hell of a lot I would change about Brits in Spain and our football supporters as a whole.

KiwiGTI

I think the UK and Europe are quite unique though.

A lot of immigrants that go to the US and Australia i think are driven by the "American Dream" where they want to be part of the society, it's success and it's lifestyle. It's a positive move in their lives. I think a lot of immigrants that come to the UK do so for very different reasons and often the wrong reasons.

7 Foot

There is also very little you need to do to fit in as Brits in the US or Australia.

Eat more and turn up your personal volume in the US.

Make everything you say sound like a question in Oz??????

Leslie

I don't think it is really that relevant which sports team you support, I dont particularly admire the English football team anyway, load of overpaid wassocks! The cricket team is another story though.

I agree with most of what Tebbit says however and I also think Paul Hapgood has put it very well indeed. I also remember what Enoch Powell said and worry about that too.

Les

moses

well lord tebbit spoke ****

he forgets the muslim world has only been free for 50 yrs from the european colonialism and been imperialised for over 200 yrs in some parts

so he aint got a clue and speaking from the hole out of his ****, their baby countries trying to get back on their feet and they have only been going downhill since the last 300 yrs not 500

moses

and its not coz of islam

they were more advanced when they followed islam and downhill when they didnt

The Zohan

posted twice

The Zohan

Looking at the title of this thread i hope my comments where not just taken as being against Islam, not meant like that at all! - It is for everyone and anyone colour, creade and religion aside.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

So does this mean I need to support Germany during the world cup next year

Anyone want to buy a few slightly used England shirts

VFB Stuttgart for the Cup

I already play for the Stuttgart Rugby team so I am fitting in to the local culture.

Petem95

Muslims dont like Islam being questioned or critised, and this may be one of the major problems with it.

I dont know how anyone can say it doesnt stifle the development of countries tho, Moses is quick to blame the Europeans (no surprise there ), but just look at what developments took place in those countries when under European rule - infrastructues created, judiciaries put into place, modern governments established.

Since becoming independant at best they have developed far less quickly, and at worst seen corruption become rife and economies falter completely.

moses

hello old buddy no islamic buildings and infrastructure was the best when europeans had clay homes muslims and romans used bricks and nice foundations just check the old buildings of spain, syria, sicily and babylon aka iraq u will notice islamic brilliance

and yes they have had no time to do stuff the last 50 yrs coz of corruption and corrupt leaders milking everything and giving nothing to the people and all backed by the democracy of the west hmm, algeria=france, egypt=usa , etc etc and alot of others u know what im talking about

were gonna go round circles and get no where, the usual culprits my friend , always the same

so i will leave it here and let u all discuss

cheers

SJ_Skyline

Moses

I think Tebbit's comments on Islamic states being not as advanced is fundamentally wrong - he is judging other countries and cultures based on his own values and of course this will only ever give one answer. It is just the same as Ayatollah Ali Khamenei turning round and saying that Western countries are not as spiritually advanced as ones under an Islamic state. Neither comments are fair and they insult the people in the countries which they are aimed at.

moses

rich my bros well said bud

tebbits cricket test is so fecked up mate

u know i know alot of scots mates who's parents r english and my mates r born here same as me in scotland , they wear england strips and support england coz their parents r english, it doesnt make then bad does it

and alot of italians who luv the land of their parents and wear italian strips when their born in this country and also turks, jews who luv israel but r born here and they support the israeli teams

so his cricket test fails as well coz its b-o-l-l-o-c-ks i blame paulr he makes me say the b-o-l-l-o-c-k-s word, it became a habit yrs ago when he started it here and i learned it aff him

Reality

"Islam is so unreformed there have been no real advances in art, literature, science or technology in the Muslim world in 500 years, Lord Tebbit says."

So what advances have there been that are due to Christianity, Catholicism or any other Religion. As Moses says - if you've spent the last 500 years being swapped around by the world super powers it's gonna be tricky to esatblish advances of any sort !


Tebbit seems to be talking out of his ar$e I'm afraid.

As for the accepting British Culture - Most White Britons aren't too happy with the aspects of our Culture that most Muslims don't like either.

We're not so different.

ps When the immigrants were invited here to do the **** jobs nobody else would they weren't told they'd have to abandon their culture - why the **** should they now ?

moses

well said reality i luv your post mate , saves me saying anything


mate i always did say, what is british culture, and if we did all people of all races should be trying to integrate to whatever culture that is, fanatics, extremists in all sides and chavs their not that culture and gangsterhood

if their was a clear indication what the british culture is, everyone can work towards it

i eat fish and chips and luv football, does that make me integrating to british culture or speaking the queens english and having a pork sausage does

and tebbit got it wrong its only been 300 yrs since it went down

ottomon caliphate was banished by traitors within the west turned brother against brother, told the arabs why let the turks rule your land and telling the turks why do u give land to the arabs etc etc when their was no nationalism and boundaries in islamic land they created it

did u know jordan is palestine and was given to the traitors king hussains family etc etc, did u know kuwait was iraq and kurdistan was a land for the kurds the greatest warrior ever in islam since the prophet was the sheikh saladdin ayubi the crusader beater, he was a kurd and his people dont have their land but now their free a lil but still oppressed from the turks


i liked your post reality well done

DocJock

Moses you are a funny guy and I respect you because you care passionately.

Sometimes though you talk a right load of bollox

Rome, Carthage, Spain, Syria, Persia, wherever.....they were building with bricks on foundations long before The Prophet appeared.

Unless you are doing what non-Muslims are often accused of and confusing Islamic with Arabic

moses

no muslim and arabs i was talking about mate, who r the ancestors of the muslims , syrians, persians, egyptian pharoahs, hittites, assyrian empire babylon, mesopatamians and many more and when islam came even more the most civilized world ever just check your history mate by european scholars when they used to go to muslim lands like iraq, spain and others and how shocked they were

the most famous scientist before the lot of them u mind the name avaroes he was a spanish muslim buddy

and check out the turkish buildings of so many yrs old

the once mighty roman empire got defeated by shephers and farm workers of islamic heritage

brilliant who r the turks, desendants of mongolians and turkestanis

how awesome and never mind that so much of the muslim population came from indus valley heritage, u heard of the mahabarat , those people the vedics of thousands of yrs old, man check their buildings, only buildings older than the egytians still standing till this day in india and pakistan etc etc , they even had sewerage systems that time mate

brilliant im glad we asians and muslims have awesome ancestors

and that aint b-o-l-l-o-c-k-s

moses

one more thing islam didnt start the time of the prophet peace be upon him

it started from adams time mate

islam is the original religion of the jews the hebrews and real christians

islam now is a jewish religion made universal

christians werent christians, u saying jesus came and said follow christianity a religion made up by st paul

he wasnt even called christ my friend he was esau or classical yeshua

he was the masi in arabic or mashih in hebrew and translating the appointed or annointed one which translates into christos thats where the word christ comes from

he wasnt called jesus it was latinized

yacoub to jacob, yusof to joseph etc etc

dba

Valid points my ****,some of you are going mad

So the cricket test is valid is it? Do you really think one of the London bombers would have phoned Osama on the day and said "sorry boss but I'm pulling out,the Ashes is on the box.".

Think about it,for at least longer than a nanosecond.Tebbit is just as ****ed up as some of the clerics,he's just as bad in many ways.


Cricket test,ffs,caveman had fairer ways of deciding which wifes to sacrifice to the Mammoth gods.

dba

Moses

quote;

one more thing islam didnt start the time of the prophet peace be upon him

it started from adams time mate

islam is the original religion of the jews the hebrews and real christians

islam now is a jewish religion made universal


You need to read a history book matey,or stop guessing.Islam started with the Prophet,not with Adam.The Arabs were pagans and did not have one God and as such no revelations of their own,until Mohammed.Mecca was a place of worship to 360 pagan gods until he turned it into a place of worship to Allah.Where you get Adam from is anyones guess.Ok so the link is monotheism,but without a book of revelations the Arabs who worshipped Allah were derided by jews and Christians until Mohammeds time.

He accepted that Abrahams sons were the 'leaders' of the Arabs and the Jews,he did this alledgedly for political reasons.Christians,Jews and Muslims all worship one God,they believe its the same God,but with differing revelations.Mohammed believed in living in harmony with all other faiths who had their own 'revelations'.

Islam is not the original religion of anyone apart from Muslims,certainly not the Jews and Christians,unless you are taking the ****.Not in the books I've read anyway.Maybe they are wrong and you are entirely correct.

No offence intended,just offering debate material

The Zohan

I think you have missed the point - the thing is, they, (the terrorists) would have no need to phone OBL as they would not be terrorists or wanting to blow up British citizens or - they would be in another country that accepts their twisted fecked up ideals not this country!

KiwiGTI

So why the problem with the West? The awesome West has had the military might, intelligence, cunning and abilty to become the dominant power in the world today.

Surely the admiration for awesome asians and muslims ancestors must pale in comparison to the mighty white man who has conquered and divided all?

dba

Moses seems to think Arabs have been Muslims forever.He is slightly wrong I'm afraid.