Word of warning for SN readers at work
17 June 2005, 04:51 PM
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Word of warning for SN readers at work
As some of you might recall from this thread HERE I was investigated a considerable time ago for misuse of the computer systems at the Local Authority I work for. The investigation in total has lasted over a year and has been nothing short of a total joke from start to finish – I could write a novel on how badly/unfairly it was handled and conducted but I’ll spare you 
The investigation was initiated because the Council’s ‘Websense’ system flagged up some inappropriate sites that I’d accessed (****) and my computer was confiscated. Despite never being allowed access to the ‘evidence’ that audit had against me, from the snippets of information I had and being I.T. literate I managed to piece together how this had occurred. Obviously I’ve never been stupid enough to access material I shouldn’t at work yet despite this the two women (
) that investigated seemed certain that despite working in an open plan office I was still finding a way to flog the dolphin during normal work hours!! Today I had the disciplinary hearing and was found guilty of sending excessive personal emails of which some content was regarded inappropriate (sex/night out chat with mates, etc) and for excessive use of the internet for non-work purposes (scoobynet 
). I was guilty of both those counts and admitted to it for which I was given a written warning although it was noted by them that my work did not suffer despite internet/email use. The pornography – the serious element – part of my case was dropped on account that they were satisfied I had not looked at, accessed or downloaded such material.
This thread should however serve as a warning to all users of scoobynet from work for the following reason:
Scoobynet is a well moderated site with a good moderation policy that would not be questioned by most employers and for that reason is safe for work use. Occasionally, things might get a little close to the bone in muppets but generally no images are posted that would be a problem. However, the way a BBS site works means that your internet logs can tell a completely different story. This can be best explained with an example: Lets say someone *cough* Telboy starts a thread entitled ‘Post your fetish’ and people start to discuss the usual stuff including leather, PVC, blah, blah. Inevitably you get the scantily clad (but not naked) women being pictured in suspenders, leathers, etc. As these pictures are posted on scoobynet and are moderated their content is unlikely to be regarded as offensive and in breach of your work internet policy. However, whilst a poster (Telboy ) may have posted an acceptable non-pornographic picture he may well have hotlinked that picture from a **** site (you can see this by right clicking pictures on scoobynet and going to properties where it tells you the source). You’d think that if you open a thread in Scoobynet with 5 pictures that Websense would only record access to the Scoobynet sever. WRONG! It access all 5 of those other servers to source the images and it logs that you’ve been on those sites in the report. Of course, having spent a few months messing around in muppets I viewed many acceptable images that were sourced from unacceptable sites and when the dunderheads in audit went through the report they just accessed those sites directly and thought, ‘got him, he’s been looking at ****’ Short of turning images off somehow I can’t see how this problem can be avoided unless Shaun can provide a way to safeguard yourself. All I can suggest is that you be extra vigilant when on any BBS at work and always remember that just because you see access only to scoobynet doesn’t mean your computer isn’t talking to server X,Y and Z to load that thread.
Of course the annoying thing is they would never have bothered to investigate my email/internet use were it not for the serious **** matter. As soon as they cleared me of that to save embarrassment they proceeded to rush through a very quick ‘slap on the wrists’ case. Red-tape, don’t you just love it
The investigation was initiated because the Council’s ‘Websense’ system flagged up some inappropriate sites that I’d accessed (****) and my computer was confiscated. Despite never being allowed access to the ‘evidence’ that audit had against me, from the snippets of information I had and being I.T. literate I managed to piece together how this had occurred. Obviously I’ve never been stupid enough to access material I shouldn’t at work yet despite this the two women (
) that investigated seemed certain that despite working in an open plan office I was still finding a way to flog the dolphin during normal work hours!! Today I had the disciplinary hearing and was found guilty of sending excessive personal emails of which some content was regarded inappropriate (sex/night out chat with mates, etc) and for excessive use of the internet for non-work purposes (scoobynet ). I was guilty of both those counts and admitted to it for which I was given a written warning although it was noted by them that my work did not suffer despite internet/email use. The pornography – the serious element – part of my case was dropped on account that they were satisfied I had not looked at, accessed or downloaded such material.This thread should however serve as a warning to all users of scoobynet from work for the following reason:
Scoobynet is a well moderated site with a good moderation policy that would not be questioned by most employers and for that reason is safe for work use. Occasionally, things might get a little close to the bone in muppets but generally no images are posted that would be a problem. However, the way a BBS site works means that your internet logs can tell a completely different story. This can be best explained with an example: Lets say someone *cough* Telboy starts a thread entitled ‘Post your fetish’ and people start to discuss the usual stuff including leather, PVC, blah, blah. Inevitably you get the scantily clad (but not naked) women being pictured in suspenders, leathers, etc. As these pictures are posted on scoobynet and are moderated their content is unlikely to be regarded as offensive and in breach of your work internet policy. However, whilst a poster (Telboy
) may have posted an acceptable non-pornographic picture he may well have hotlinked that picture from a **** site (you can see this by right clicking pictures on scoobynet and going to properties where it tells you the source). You’d think that if you open a thread in Scoobynet with 5 pictures that Websense would only record access to the Scoobynet sever. WRONG! It access all 5 of those other servers to source the images and it logs that you’ve been on those sites in the report. Of course, having spent a few months messing around in muppets I viewed many acceptable images that were sourced from unacceptable sites and when the dunderheads in audit went through the report they just accessed those sites directly and thought, ‘got him, he’s been looking at ****’ Short of turning images off somehow I can’t see how this problem can be avoided unless Shaun can provide a way to safeguard yourself. All I can suggest is that you be extra vigilant when on any BBS at work and always remember that just because you see access only to scoobynet doesn’t mean your computer isn’t talking to server X,Y and Z to load that thread.Of course the annoying thing is they would never have bothered to investigate my email/internet use were it not for the serious **** matter. As soon as they cleared me of that to save embarrassment they proceeded to rush through a very quick ‘slap on the wrists’ case. Red-tape, don’t you just love it
17 June 2005, 04:55 PM
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Torch your office at the end of June and blame the G8 protesters
All that stress for a feckin lousy wrtitten warning....at least demand to be sacked
Not the new feckin Coldplay album 
All that stress for a feckin lousy wrtitten warning....at least demand to be sacked
your computer isn’t talking to server X,Y and Z
Last edited by SiPie; 17 June 2005 at 04:58 PM.
17 June 2005, 04:59 PM
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What a joke (if it didn't have serious implications for you)
Surely it would be much simpler if employers simply forbade all personal email and non-business net use ?
Surely it would be much simpler if employers simply forbade all personal email and non-business net use ?
17 June 2005, 05:22 PM
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I've worked at places were some of the female staff were very prudish and would take a very dim view of women in scanty outfits etc. One even complained about a VAX/VMS process name of mine (what's wrong with cunninglinguist? ).
So as SB says, be very careful. If another member of staff is offended by what they have seen on your screen, regardless of how innofensive that image may be to most people, it could lead to disciplinary action.
Also, never put something in a work email what you wouldn't want the whole company to see.
).So as SB says, be very careful. If another member of staff is offended by what they have seen on your screen, regardless of how innofensive that image may be to most people, it could lead to disciplinary action.
Also, never put something in a work email what you wouldn't want the whole company to see.
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17 June 2005, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Neanderthal
Would this be the case even if I've disabled the showing of pictures in threads (I just get the url's showing) ?
17 June 2005, 05:59 PM
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Im at the start of a very similar process, Saxo boy. And i'm hoping i get a similar outcome to yourself i.e. a slap on the wrists for spending too much time on the web at work.
However, like yourself, my crime has been to visit sex sites, namely Scoobynet!
Maybe it's just Local Authorities who have the politically correct approach completely up their ar$es!
I count myself lucky that the regional IT help-type person is a mate and is keeping me ahead of the game. Without his support I think I would be hacking bricks by now!
But be warned...Scoobynet can certainly damage your health!
However, like yourself, my crime has been to visit sex sites, namely Scoobynet!
Maybe it's just Local Authorities who have the politically correct approach completely up their ar$es!
I count myself lucky that the regional IT help-type person is a mate and is keeping me ahead of the game. Without his support I think I would be hacking bricks by now!
But be warned...Scoobynet can certainly damage your health!
Last edited by Jaydee5; 17 June 2005 at 06:00 PM. Reason: spelling!
17 June 2005, 06:08 PM
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Would this be the case even if I've disabled the showing of pictures in threads (I just get the url's showing) ?
Jaydee5, drop me a line if you need any help/advice/support at anytime. As I said, my internal audit peeps had me convicted from day one and it was not easy to explain to then and demonstrate that the process of hotlinking images can be perfectly acceptable but that those images may be hosted on sites that are primarily pornographic. The real problem was that Websense spat out massive amounts of information and the I.T. and audit peeps at my work didn't have a clue how to understand an anaylise that information
17 June 2005, 06:08 PM
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Scoobynet got me 2 warnings, a verbal then a written one at my old job a couple of years back. Not for the content of the site, just the amount of time I spent on it. Only they printed off a months list of each page i hit, there was about a ream of paper filled with links
17 June 2005, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy
Not sure, perhaps webby could answer or someone that knows how websense, etc log things. I guess if it doesn't need to load the picture it won't need to contact other servers out with scoobynet.
Jaydee5, drop me a line if you need any help/advice/support at anytime. As I said, my internal audit peeps had me convicted from day one and it was not easy to explain to then and demonstrate that the process of hotlinking images can be perfectly acceptable but that those images may be hosted on sites that are primarily pornographic. The real problem was that Websense spat out massive amounts of information and the I.T. and audit peeps at my work didn't have a clue how to understand an anaylise that information
Jaydee5, drop me a line if you need any help/advice/support at anytime. As I said, my internal audit peeps had me convicted from day one and it was not easy to explain to then and demonstrate that the process of hotlinking images can be perfectly acceptable but that those images may be hosted on sites that are primarily pornographic. The real problem was that Websense spat out massive amounts of information and the I.T. and audit peeps at my work didn't have a clue how to understand an anaylise that information
Thanks mate
17 June 2005, 06:37 PM
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You could seriously look into making a case agains your employer here. They have a duty of cae to protect you from content that you find offensive. As you find **** offensive it is they who should be STOPPING you from viewing, rather than you regualting yourself.
There are many ways to stop you from going to a particular site. And depending on your level of access, you may be able to install some of these programs yourself.
There are many ways to stop you from going to a particular site. And depending on your level of access, you may be able to install some of these programs yourself.
17 June 2005, 06:43 PM
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Here's a solution!!!!!
Don't look at scoobynet at work!?!
Personal opinion and flame suit on but if i was an employer i think if i found anyone sending personal e-mails or using my pc's for internet use not related to work i'd be looking at ways to get rid!!
Surely you are paid to do a job, in the case of a local authority you are in effect paid by us the tax payer, so is it crazy i think you should be working and not looking at web sites all the time?
Or am i just getting old and cynical?
Don't look at scoobynet at work!?!
Personal opinion and flame suit on but if i was an employer i think if i found anyone sending personal e-mails or using my pc's for internet use not related to work i'd be looking at ways to get rid!!
Surely you are paid to do a job, in the case of a local authority you are in effect paid by us the tax payer, so is it crazy i think you should be working and not looking at web sites all the time?
Or am i just getting old and cynical?
17 June 2005, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminous
Not unreasonable to use it during a lunch break though....
Reasonable i'll admit, but think in this case the admission of excessive use of inernet may mean in work time and the e-mails he admits were inapropriate. Just my opinion obviously, i work in a strictly IT controlled environment where we are constantly watched to ensure integrity of our networked systems and it's never bothered me at all!
17 June 2005, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminous
Not unreasonable to use it during a lunch break though....
If I have overstepped the mark throughout the day by spending more than my 36mins lunch break on SN...so be it. But I have a mahoosive amount of time spent at home, in my supposedly own time, which i am suppose to claim back as Time Off In Lieu doing the work that i'm supposed to get done in the office. And for a variety of reasons this doesn't get done....so please don't start giving me a lecture in time management
17 June 2005, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminous
You could seriously look into making a case agains your employer here. They have a duty of cae to protect you from content that you find offensive. As you find **** offensive it is they who should be STOPPING you from viewing, rather than you regualting yourself.
There are many ways to stop you from going to a particular site. And depending on your level of access, you may be able to install some of these programs yourself.
There are many ways to stop you from going to a particular site. And depending on your level of access, you may be able to install some of these programs yourself.
You are joking, right ?
SB has abused the internet facility at work and you are telling him it is his employers fault ? Utterly incredible thought process, and symptomatic of why this country is ****ed up.
Like Chris5-0 said, he's being paid to work, not **** around.
17 June 2005, 07:06 PM
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I decided to look at the above quote as a laugh myself, couldn't believe someone would seriously make that sort of suggestion in good faith.
No doubt we'll have to wait til monday for replies of most of these people as they're not at work to answer!!!!
P.S
Check out the time of the first post! Early finish or are we looking at more trouble for them?!?!?!
No doubt we'll have to wait til monday for replies of most of these people as they're not at work to answer!!!!
P.S
Check out the time of the first post! Early finish or are we looking at more trouble for them?!?!?!
17 June 2005, 07:12 PM
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No doubt we'll have to wait til monday for replies of most of these people as they're not at work to answer!!!!
P.S
Check out the time of the first post! Early finish or are we looking at more trouble for them?!?!?![/QUOTE]
I'm going to ignore the barbed comments there Chris5!
Who wants to fall out on a BBS, eh?
P.S
Check out the time of the first post! Early finish or are we looking at more trouble for them?!?!?![/QUOTE]
I'm going to ignore the barbed comments there Chris5!
Who wants to fall out on a BBS, eh?
17 June 2005, 07:57 PM
#24
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What a lot of self righteous people exist on Scoobynet at times. I'm with Jaydee5 on this one.......
Pause for a moment and digest
Not all employers/places of work mirror your own
In Kenny's case let's just suppose:
What if there are no planning applications made between January and July? Kenny has to sit there twiddling his thumbs month in and month out just waiting for one of us to make up his mind to erect a garage or build an extension.....
So...once any backlog has been cleared and he has polished his desk, cleaned the toilets, arranged the council's Christmas night out, sucked off or shagged his boss a few times, read up and studied all the latest procedures and legislations, helped out other members of staff and generally carried out every conceivable task that could ever be asked of him on his job description...what the **** is he supposed to do?
In summary, alot of employers who employee people who work in a SERVICE RELATED JOB actually trust their employees to serve when they are needed to serve and the employers recognise that the staff quotas are needed when the demands are high and the trained staff have to be kept on during the quieter times.....during these times most staff are trusted to amuse themselves.
The guy does his work when needed and surfs **** when it's quiet
Problem being ?
I work in the print/publishing industry and I sure ain't expected to keep running blank print jobs through all the printers if there is **** all to be printed. If I have done every conceivable task that can be done, offered help to any other areas etc then I am still needed to be at work to deal with any requests that arise. I'm damn sure I can do roughly what I please as long as it's within reason. I'm there to do jobs as efficiently and accurately as possible whenever needed and like Jaydee5 work extra hours when needed, then the least I can expect is to be allowed to do what I want.
You think the fire service set their station on fire every day just to practise putting it out
Pause for a moment and digest
Not all employers/places of work mirror your own
In Kenny's case let's just suppose:
What if there are no planning applications made between January and July? Kenny has to sit there twiddling his thumbs month in and month out just waiting for one of us to make up his mind to erect a garage or build an extension.....
So...once any backlog has been cleared and he has polished his desk, cleaned the toilets, arranged the council's Christmas night out, sucked off or shagged his boss a few times, read up and studied all the latest procedures and legislations, helped out other members of staff and generally carried out every conceivable task that could ever be asked of him on his job description...what the **** is he supposed to do?
In summary, alot of employers who employee people who work in a SERVICE RELATED JOB actually trust their employees to serve when they are needed to serve and the employers recognise that the staff quotas are needed when the demands are high and the trained staff have to be kept on during the quieter times.....during these times most staff are trusted to amuse themselves.
The guy does his work when needed and surfs **** when it's quiet
Problem being ?
I work in the print/publishing industry and I sure ain't expected to keep running blank print jobs through all the printers if there is **** all to be printed. If I have done every conceivable task that can be done, offered help to any other areas etc then I am still needed to be at work to deal with any requests that arise. I'm damn sure I can do roughly what I please as long as it's within reason. I'm there to do jobs as efficiently and accurately as possible whenever needed and like Jaydee5 work extra hours when needed, then the least I can expect is to be allowed to do what I want.
You think the fire service set their station on fire every day just to practise putting it out
Last edited by SiPie; 17 June 2005 at 08:18 PM.
17 June 2005, 08:22 PM
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SiPie....you really made me laugh
How right you are
How i dislike self righteous, all important folk!
Thank you for seeing the world as i do
How right you are
How i dislike self righteous, all important folk!
Thank you for seeing the world as i do
17 June 2005, 08:53 PM
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Re: time of first post, flexi-time
As sipie says there will be a lot of people that have nothing to do at work and chose to surf the net, send emails, etc. In my case its quite different - at any one time I have 80 live planning applications on my desk and even busting my gut I'd probably never get it below 50-odd unless I started to work unpaid weekends/at home, etc. My workmates are in a similar boat. The job is stressful and very unrewarding and I alleviate the drudge with a friendly email or two to friends during the day and (prior to april last year) reading/posting on SN. The service sector workers that come in at 8 leave at 7 and knacker their pan in solidly during that time are as rare as rocking horse sh*t and that is for the very reason that absolutely no distinction is made (financially or otherwise) between him and the guy that works his flexi-time to his ultimate advantage, reads the sun on the sh*tter for an hour and does the bare minimum.
At the risk of sounding big headed I've spent the last year being the 2nd guy on account of having little interest in the job and little loyality to the authority after the way they treated me but despite this have still matched or exceeded the productivity of my peers who are genuinely hard working. This has been my main motivation for seeking private sector work because I want/need to work in an evnironment that actually challenges me and actually promotes profiteering or gain through worker input. Effectively I feel I'm wasted in the environment that I work in and its not healthy for me nor them and yet despite ALL this my manager still said he's happy with my work and workrate just today.
Could I do more in a day now or during my time of 'breaching the IT policy'? Yes, of course I could but unfortunately for you tax payers there is nothing to promote that in the make up and running of local government. No doubt that gets many of your backs up but at the end of the day we live in a competative society and the service sector offers the easy life for many people whereas the private sector tends to offer the better money/perks in exchange for more output. The few people that work to a private sector standard for no reward in the service sector are rare/idiots/have serious social concience I personally need something to aim for and something to fight for and that isn't offered in my current environment. So in short, I do my job as is expected of my workmates, boss, his boss, etc but in an environment that promotes it I have more in the tank.
The problem I had is that there is no 'give' in a local authority situation. There is a very tight IT policy and if its breached then you get taken aside because of it irrespective of how hard you work/don't work, etc. In the private sector if you were seen to spend a little too much time on the net then it would probably never be raised if you were also be seen to be putting in the hours and bringing in the mega-bucks.
And finally, I ONLY got the warning because they started off investigating the serious allegation of looking at **** and upon finding nothing had to justify the audit officers time. Everyone in my office admit they go over the 1 hour personal time a week and send personal emails but none of them are investigated and nor would I if websense hadn't suggested I'd been baiting at my desk.
In response to the person that said he'd not hire someone for his business if he caught them sending any emails, on the net, reading the paper: you must be mad mate - employing someone like that is business suicide! I remember those sort of work, work,work people from university and whilst they usually got ok marks they had zero social skills and you need this IMHO in nearly any job that involves any level of thinking/responsibility. As a boss I'd want to know that my employee has mates he emails, interests that he pursues on the internet during his lunch, etc. If you don't think this matters a lot to employers then why have I been asked more personal questions at recent interviews than work related ones? What are you interests? Do you do any sports? Do you meet up with your uni mates still? Tell us about what you do at your weekend? etc.
Chris5-0 I find your opinion interesting as I assume you have a police background. My mate joined the police a few years back and we were playing pool with him last night and discussing how much his attitude to some very very very trivial things has changed over the last year - they must brainwash you guys in a certain way I'm just having a bit of fun but joking aside there is a little bit of a 'policemans attitude' in existance in the UK Life is not black and white, its many shades of grey and despite the conflict this can create from time to time its a good thing.
**god, I went off on one **
As sipie says there will be a lot of people that have nothing to do at work and chose to surf the net, send emails, etc. In my case its quite different - at any one time I have 80 live planning applications on my desk and even busting my gut I'd probably never get it below 50-odd unless I started to work unpaid weekends/at home, etc. My workmates are in a similar boat. The job is stressful and very unrewarding and I alleviate the drudge with a friendly email or two to friends during the day and (prior to april last year) reading/posting on SN. The service sector workers that come in at 8 leave at 7 and knacker their pan in solidly during that time are as rare as rocking horse sh*t and that is for the very reason that absolutely no distinction is made (financially or otherwise) between him and the guy that works his flexi-time to his ultimate advantage, reads the sun on the sh*tter for an hour and does the bare minimum.
At the risk of sounding big headed I've spent the last year being the 2nd guy on account of having little interest in the job and little loyality to the authority after the way they treated me but despite this have still matched or exceeded the productivity of my peers who are genuinely hard working. This has been my main motivation for seeking private sector work because I want/need to work in an evnironment that actually challenges me and actually promotes profiteering or gain through worker input. Effectively I feel I'm wasted in the environment that I work in and its not healthy for me nor them and yet despite ALL this my manager still said he's happy with my work and workrate just today.
Could I do more in a day now or during my time of 'breaching the IT policy'? Yes, of course I could but unfortunately for you tax payers there is nothing to promote that in the make up and running of local government. No doubt that gets many of your backs up but at the end of the day we live in a competative society and the service sector offers the easy life for many people whereas the private sector tends to offer the better money/perks in exchange for more output. The few people that work to a private sector standard for no reward in the service sector are rare/idiots/have serious social concience
I personally need something to aim for and something to fight for and that isn't offered in my current environment. So in short, I do my job as is expected of my workmates, boss, his boss, etc but in an environment that promotes it I have more in the tank.The problem I had is that there is no 'give' in a local authority situation. There is a very tight IT policy and if its breached then you get taken aside because of it irrespective of how hard you work/don't work, etc. In the private sector if you were seen to spend a little too much time on the net then it would probably never be raised if you were also be seen to be putting in the hours and bringing in the mega-bucks.
And finally, I ONLY got the warning because they started off investigating the serious allegation of looking at **** and upon finding nothing had to justify the audit officers time. Everyone in my office admit they go over the 1 hour personal time a week and send personal emails but none of them are investigated and nor would I if websense hadn't suggested I'd been baiting at my desk.
In response to the person that said he'd not hire someone for his business if he caught them sending any emails, on the net, reading the paper: you must be mad mate - employing someone like that is business suicide! I remember those sort of work, work,work people from university and whilst they usually got ok marks they had zero social skills and you need this IMHO in nearly any job that involves any level of thinking/responsibility. As a boss I'd want to know that my employee has mates he emails, interests that he pursues on the internet during his lunch, etc. If you don't think this matters a lot to employers then why have I been asked more personal questions at recent interviews than work related ones? What are you interests? Do you do any sports? Do you meet up with your uni mates still? Tell us about what you do at your weekend? etc.
Chris5-0 I find your opinion interesting as I assume you have a police background. My mate joined the police a few years back and we were playing pool with him last night and discussing how much his attitude to some very very very trivial things has changed over the last year - they must brainwash you guys in a certain way
I'm just having a bit of fun but joking aside there is a little bit of a 'policemans attitude' in existance in the UK Life is not black and white, its many shades of grey and despite the conflict this can create from time to time its a good thing.**god, I went off on one
**
17 June 2005, 08:57 PM
#28
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i think i posted sumthing on the old thread that pissed loads of people off, so if you want my take on things read the old thread
was probably along the lines of "when your at work do your fackin work" or summit
was probably along the lines of "when your at work do your fackin work" or summit
17 June 2005, 08:59 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by SiPie
The guy does his work when needed and surfs **** when it's quiet
Problem being ?
Sipie and Jaydee5 - I'm with the self righteous on this. If you spend excessive time on here during work hours then you can't be concentrating on a proper job, or you just aren't busy enough.
Mind you his biggest offence was to be in muppets
Next time you fly abroad you might want to ask what the pilot's doing
17 June 2005, 08:59 PM
#30
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There are many ways to stop you from going to a particular site. And depending on your level of access, you may be able to install some of these programs yourself.
how about not going to the sites with the handy tool MSN "use ya fooken noggin" V7.2 ?