eClaire

As above really. Cooker was included in the house sale and has one setting - inferno! We got the keys on 15th of April so have been having to eat out, at other peoples houses and use the microwave. I had kind of been relying on the cooker working until after we were married (end of june) to buy a new one.

If I wasn't 5 1/2 months pregnant then it wouldn't bother me but I really want to be able to eat properly in my own home

Our solicitor has just said that the other solicitor said it was ok and that it would have to go through the small claims court if we wanted it. We have no record of our solicitor checking the cooker.

Where do we stand?

TIA

C

Hanslow

Nowhere I think. We're going through moving at the moment and we were instructed by our solicitor to arrange a second viewing and check everything works because once everything is completed it is caveat emptor and tough luck if we didn't check stuff out first.

eClaire

I don't know if this stands in England or not but in Scotland we get 7 days to check and make sure everything works; we reported it within the seven days!

OllyK

Scottish house buying law is rather different to England. In England unless your solicitor has held back some of the cash pending confirmation of some details, like cookers work etc, then your stuffed really.

sti-04!!

IIRC you get 14 days to establish if everything is working right !

Trashman

Usually there is a disclaimer on the Estate Agent's details saying no warranty given/implied blah blah regarding ANY appliances, heating, even the state of electrical and gas supplies and that they recommend you get independant advice. I think there is probably not much chance really; it may be worth speaking nicely to the previous owner, but he/she may not have realised it wasn't working properly.

The Zohan

I am afraid it sounds bad if your solicitor has no record of whether ti works or not, should be on a list of his/hers somewhere surely?

Lot of conveyancing seems done buy their juniors with the solicitor just stepping in from time to time. You do however pay for a solicitor!

eClaire

7 days (for us, anyway).


Just called the Citizens Advice. They said to contact a senior partner of the firm and explain whats happening. If they werent entertaining us we were to contact the law society.

They fobbed us off for a plug socket being above the sink, too!

My parents think its because we are young they are trying to fob us off!

eClaire

They fobbed us off for a plug socket being above the sink, too!

>They said our surveyor should have picked up on it - they recommended the surveyor as they had already surveyed it and we were getting it half price!

imlach

This is what you pay solicitors for. If it was included "as working", then it should work, and you have 7/14 days to claim, as you did.

If it was "included but not with any warranty", then you have no claim.

If it's not detailed at all on the missives list, then sticky wicket. There may be an point on the missives which states "everything is included as seen and unwarrantied" etc.

Have you got your missives list to hand?

imlach

Not sure about this one. A surveyor would just note this in his survey - it is up to you to negotiate getting it changed/altered by the seller as part of the terms & conditions of the sale IIRC.

imlach

PS I can't emphasise enough - this is what you pay your solicitor £500+ for. When things go smoothly, they make good money....when things don't, it's time for them to get the finger out. Keep on at them.

imlach

This is most bizarre too. If solicitor said cooker was "ok", what does that mean? Was it written down?

"ok" is not a legal term

Diablo

Olly,

Yes, house buying is different up here, but you're a bit off the mark with the rest.

Claire,

The missives of the transaction will define the warranty period in question. It is normal legal practice when you are buying white goods with a house to obtain a warranty from the seller that the goods are in working order and in a condition appropriate to their age.

This warranty period will normally be anything between 24/48 hours and 7 days.

If you reported it to your solicitor within the timescale noted in the missives, and your solicitor reported it to the seller, then you have a right to pursue the seller for the cost of repairs.

If your solicitor didn't report it, then he/she was negligent and should be reimbursing you the cost of repairs.

hope this helps

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I suggest getting a cheap 2nd hand cooker from loot etc to keep the stress out of the situation.

Whether you make a succesful claim or not, whether you get enough gift vouchers from the wedding list at least, as you say - get access to a working cooker ASAP to take the grief out of it all

chris singleton

Sorry, but this is not the solicitors fault and I sincerely doubt that you have any claim.

If you are purchasing any goods in addition to the purchase price as "chattels" or if they are simply included in the sale it is a matter for you to check that they are in full working order either via your own ispection of the property or survey. Same applies for central heating system, etc.

The solicitor should not raise any enquiries to which a reply can be obtained through the buyer's own survey and inspection and should not seek opinions rather than facts. If they do the seller is under no obligation to give a reply and even if the seller stated that it was in full working order it would no doubt be under the proviso that no warranty or representation is intended and the buyers must still rely exclusively upon their own survey and inspection.

I sympathise and it's a difficult situation as the only way you can cover yourself is to inspect the property on the morning of completion before the funds are transferred to check that everything is in good working order. This is not always possible.

Chris

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Is it gas or electric?

If it gas, then perhaps you may have some sort of argument that because of the fault it is unsafe???

Leslie

Seems to me that if they said it was in good working order and its not, then they are guilty of misrepresentation and are still liable for the condition of the stove. Don't see why they should get away with that!

Les

OllyK

I assume they get away with it on the same basis that if you buy a private car and the owner says "it's a nice runner" but you don't bother checking before handing over the cash and it turns out to be a nail, it's your problem?

If the cooker was just thrown in, no money paid, then it really is no big deal. If you handed over cash for it, why on earth didn't you check it worked? I had a plumber look over the heating before I bought my last house, so I knew it was fooked before we moved in, but we negotiated the price down accordingly. It still amazes me how many people buy a house with only a basic survey as well.

imlach

Are you in England?
Here in Scotland, it doesn't work like that.
I have experience of buyers getting things like central heating fixed at the seller's expense due to it not working at point of moving when it was sold as "a working system". This was done AFTER the sale was concluded in the first 24 hours.

The missives are quite clear in what they do state, and what they don't state. The solicitor IS involved in this one. If it was included as "unwarranted" then fair enough, no comeback. If it was included as "working", then it must work at the point of sale.

Hanslow

I don't know what it's like in Scotland, but our solicitor effectively said that unless you find out if it doesn't work and get it written down, then you are accepting the state of the appliance, working or not, as part of the sale. How you can fully check some things like an oven though, I don't know. Our oven works overly hot, we just turn the temperature down and adjust times. Took us a while to get used to, but works fine with the adjusted temps and times. It's fan assisted and I'm used to non fan assisted ovens.

I'd need to use the oven fully, i.e. bake a cake, to know whether or not it was functioning satisfactory. I'd not know by turning it on whether it was running to correct temps or not and would appear to me to be functioning correctly.

imlach

In Scotland.....

Once you have taken entry to the property you should let us know if there are any problems. Always test the central heating system and any appliances that you are purchasing. If there are any problems you may have rights in terms of the missives to claim from the sellers.

Harry_Boy

Absolutely true for transactions conducted in England & Wales. I believe Scottish transactions are different (as in the general conveyancing process), but have no experience of the obligations or otherwise.

As an aside, it always amuses me that people regard the solicitor as responsible for personally checking all the bl**dy electric and gas appliances at every property for which they do the conveyancing.....

imlach

Of course they're not responsible for the physical checking, but here in Scotland, if these items are in the missives, they the solicitor does have to action any issues with them which are reported by the buyer.

eClaire

Interesting reading....

Thanks for your input, imlach made some interesting points. I am ging to read through the missives tonight and double check what it says. We are just going to buy a new cooker anyways, I cant be arsed waiting for them to pull their fnger out of their *****. I might try and pursue it purely to see what happens, you never know I may end up being reimbursed for the new one!

chris singleton

Apologies, yes I'm talking about England & Wales, have no experience of how it works in Scotland - probably should have looked at eClaires profile first

GM

I think things are changing in Scotland. Certainly when I bought my current flat I had 7 days to notify the vendors of any problems (like the short circuiting storage heater their removal men had walloped with something on the way out ). But looking at property particulars now it seems that they all have the caveat that none of the appliances are warranted and that it is the buyer who's responsible for ensuring that they're working.

imlach

Of course, any canny seller would include the "none of the appliances are warranted" clause in Scotland into their missives if said appliances are out of manufacturers warranty. I certainly would (and have!). Of course, property particulars are not in themselves legally binding documents and anything on them doesn't need to be 100% accurate...the concluding of the missives will generate a 100% legally binding definition of what you are purchasing.

However, missives are up for negotiation, and there is usually a tussle to & fro between the selling & buying solicitors until the missives are concluded (ie, both sides agree as to the terms & conditions of the sale). If that means a reduction in price, or some kind of warranty, then so be it.

Generally though, the house makes up 99.9% of the purchase price, and whether a 8 year old fridge is in perfect working condition or not, is not a huge consideration in the final transaction. White goods like this are generally included because the vendor is getting new goods in their new property, don't want their existing ones, and therefore have little value to the vendor anyway. Therefore, instead of trying to get extra cash for them, they are left as part of the sale, but unwarranted.