Freak

Spotted this on way home from gig this morning!

M5 southbound just near junction 7 ....

4:45am!

Three traffic cars on bridge, 6 officers, pointing a laser at the traffic.


Hardly any traffic at all as you would probably expect at that time.
Just as well I had a problem with my car as otherwise I may have been going slightly faster

Its not really about the figures or the cash now is it....

IPKIS

I think they realise thats when people are most likely to be going for it.
hardly any traffic late night/early morning empty roads means open it right up for some people.

and i can't claim to be innocent either as i do it

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, it's hard to believe that the motivation is safety when you have lazer traps sited on a motorway at 4.45 am!! Seems likr they just want to catch out the responsible people who wait for a decent road and a quiet period to go a little faster than normal.

It's sad; it does the police's reputation no favours at all and I bet most of them don't even agree with this kind of approach!

NS04

G00ner

Just when you think the filth have hit rock bottom, you read something like this.

corradoboy

Good job they weren't on a bridge over the stretch of m-way I was on at 6.40am

TW@TS

hedgehog

Doing speed checks at this time of day can also help support their demands for more enforcement. If they do the check in the rush hour it is likely that the figures will be that perhaps only a few percent of cars are exceeding the limit and then only by a small margin. If they do their check in the early hours of the morning then the chances are that their "statistics" will clearly demonstrate that "75% of drivers were exceeding the limit with some doing so by a considerable margin..."

Armed with these statistics they will be able to make motorists look like a lot of nutters and the press release will probably say something like "Even on this busy section of motorway which carries 100,000 cars per day police checks showed that 75% of motorists were exceeding the limit by more than 10mph. During the checks as many as 10% of vehicles were exceeding 90mph." Of course what they don't mention is that the total number of cars sampled was only 10 and it was done in the early hours of the morning when the drivers couldn't see another car on the road.

Doing people at that hour of the morning also improves their maximum speed "headline grabbing" figures as there is a fair chance of getting someone on an empty motorway doing in excess of 100mph and the media love stories like with speeds above 100mph.

Several people have mentioned that there seems to be lots more early morning enforcement of late and as well as the points above there is also the issue that the laser gear is not approved for use in the dark, or rain, or fog. So, it's all about safety then: drive at 100mph into the fog on a dark winter night and you stand little chance of detection. Drive at 100mph on a clear, dry summer morning when you can see that the motorway is empty and you'll find yourself featuring in a range of statistical reports demanding more speed enforcement and on the front page of the local paper branded unsafe. Makes you think.

jonc

or you could of course be testing the capabilities of the car.......

BuRR

Maybe he was showing a sprog how the thing works? Maybe they were praticing their aiming skills?

I'd guess that they were killing time before their 5am early morning coffee stop

G00ner

Burr, I know your the IT side of things in the 'force' but surely you can't accept speed traps at 5.00 in the morning?

I had 40k+ worth of damage done to my belongings by some chav scum and the police could barely raise an eyebrow, but break the law by 5mph and the filth is all over you...

Also I could if I really tried, I could find the scum that turned my house over, but if I dished out some retribution the old bill would be all over me, and that's not right.

corradoboy

G00ner, it would cost a lot of money to investigate the crime done to you, and there is a high probability that if they caught the scum that they would be incapable of footing the bill for the court case, let alone the investigation or your 40k. Whereas, a motorist whom commits the crime of placing his right foot a milimetre too low can be identified quickly and easily and in great numbers, and with an almost 100% chance of a full collection of funds at the end of it. As a business plan, I know which I'd invest in

TDT

Or it could have been an ANPR unit and not a speed check at all............

Brit_in_Japan

If it was a speed trap then I would suggest this is a very poor use of police time and money. At that time of day the biggest cause of accidents is falling asleep at the wheel, speed isn't really an issue in that case.

Adrian F

Why do people still think there is any connection with accident prevention in the current blanket approach to speed limit enforcement?

It is about money and making driving a miserable experience to persuade people not to drive.

I was coming back from the Lake District Saturday and there was a Cumbrian camera van working on the bridge over the M6 targeting the less busy direction. Does this mean that more accidents happen on roads with less traffic? Or is it more profitable to target the more lightly trafficked side? This is not a unique experience as I have seen Essex Police operating in the same manner on dual carriage ways.

Talking of which I saw a Police Traffic car reversing and manoeuvring on a single lane slip road on to the new bit of the A120 (Dual carriage way ) to park up at 90 degrees to the slip road to speed trap the road at 9.15 am Sunday morning. So how can that be safe? You enter the slip road and accelerate to enter the dual carriage way but no there blocking the road is a police car!

As to obey the speed limit and you will be ok brigade when this happens they just lower the limit to ensure the revenue stream continues. The reason most people break the speed limit is that many have no credibility and roads that have been 60 limits for 30+ years are suddenly reduced to 40 limits for no obvious reason and then the camera vans arrive.

In Essex police case frequently a unmarked old white transit with laser gun fitted and officers not wearing Hi Vis when operating it by hand out side the van. The range of the Laser gun is such that they catch you before you reach the camera signs on the lamp post. Still all is fair in Love and War and this is war on the motorist.

IanW

Funnily enough that was my thinking too

hedgehog

Freak was pretty clear that they were pointing a laser though and would probably have recognised an ANPR setup. It does sound like a lot of people for one laser but it is possible they were training, or had just picked up some fresh donuts, or were having an impromptu lodge meeting, or just had nothing else to do now that the level of reported crime has officially dropped to nearly nothing.

While I am joking and support active and effective policing and know there are many good people doing it my point is that the public view of the police really is being erroded. I know this is also the view of the Federation for the most part and that many police officers are uncomfortable with what is going on. I can't believe that the government don't know this and, therefore, I can't help but wonder why they keep going with policies that are flawed. I bet, however, that there is some long term political goal. This, of course, applies to a much wider range of areas than just the speed enforcement scam.

The other possibility is that they were aiming for some headline speeds, as I outlined earlier, and had someone standing by to give chase lest they got what they wanted. Doesn't quite fit with the evidence but a possibility. Again this looks great for the "glorious leaders" but doesn't help the police officer on the street one little bit.

Leslie

Why do they have to do their training in this case at this time of day? What possible difference would it make to do it during normal traffic flows.

You are scraping the barrel for that excuse I think Burr!

What kind of impression does that give to the average motorist too?

Les

Jonesy1981

I'm pretty sure they do it @ this hour, if they were training, so there was less chance of accidents (people seeing them and braking hard to slow).. ANPR is also another option.

In Kent, most of the 'Mobile speed vans' are manned by civilian staff, obviously the people that love sticking the 'Jo Public' on for anything they can - they obviously like dishing out their own miserable lives to everyone else, if they're not happy, they'll make sure we're not!!

Freak

definately wasnt ANPR
have seen enough lasers in my time to know what they look like!

If it was training, they muct have been doing it by telepathy or perhaps by using the force, as the gun was manned by one officer, and the others were not standing by him as one would expect you would do when being trained.

BuRR

Hey..... don't shoot me!

I'm currently writing a letter of complaint to the local Divisional Commander. I reported an incident 2 weeks ago, and I've not had a visit yet!

and it wasn't an excuse! I was offering a tongue in cheek possibility. 3 cars @ 4am? They're either sad ba$tards or really are just showing the new guy how it works. At 4am, there's not a lot going on, so you either do a bit of training, or you catch up with paperwork. Or you just hang around, and chat with your crewmates whilst waiting for the next call.

Jeez... you all really have a downer on the police don't you????


(that was a joke, as I know what's coming now )

BuRR

Maybe the guy who needed training would have been in bed during "normal traffic flows" as was on the night shift?

BuRR

...and yes, I'm as sick of the mobile vans as the next person is - SO PLEASE STOP TARRING US ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH?

......a DETECTIVE (ie. NON-TRAFFIC-ORIENTATED) OFFICER signing off


(get the hint I hate speed traps? )

Leslie

Certainly no "down" on the police here Burr. But I do feel the same as you about speedcams especially on the open road and motorways. And at 0400 is absolutely ridiculous. I misunderstood your earlier post however.

Les

TDT

So you can tell the difference between a handheld ANPR unit and a laser at 04:00 when the light isn't brilliant, travelling at 70mph 30 odd metres below.

Christ, your eyesight must be good!

mart360

I have to say i agree that this level of remote policing is awful...
they bang on how if one life was saved it was worth it...

yet you open the papers everyday and read of people battered to death by gangs of youths...

where is the one life saved here?? where is the presence to act as a deterrent??


what message does that send out....

beat somone to death... walk free

break the speed limit by 10mph get a conviction.....


I wouldnt mind if your caught, stopped and told immidiatly that you are to be prosecuted, fair enough. Its this contemptious convict yourself attitude, that winds people up.

I agree its not the feelings of all of you, my brother in law never gave one ticket to a motorist during his 2 year stay in traffic..

you almost wait for the next line to be "we are only following orders"

sad to say, this defence failed at nurenburg, so why should now be different.

given that you read in the papers that the ACPO are ignoring hmg

reccomendations to go easy on motorists, it makes you wonder who is calling

the shots..


it was clearly demonstrated last night on one of the police reality shows...

a guy was stopped for having a defective moped... and got a ticking off, and sent on his way..

15 mins later he was stopped again, and again sent on his way.... !!!!????!!!

yet the guy driving with no tax, stopped & arrested..

now i,m no copper, and i accept its often a judgement call, but you have to

ask where the uniform level of policing is applied??

it almost comes accross as cameras are always there, you choose to convict yourself, theres no need for us to do the work...

prehaps some of our resident feds would care to disclose how much revenue (sorry fines!!) have been taken from motorists in there forces area, and how and where has this money been spent in putting it back into promoting better driving etc.

prehaps if we were to adopt the american system of voting in sherrifs or chief constables based on there performance, we may actually get somthing back, it amazing how a little carrot dangled can change peoples attitudes..



Mart