dr_ming

My insurance policy (like most) gives me 3rd party cover when driving cars that do not belong to me. The question is, does that car have to be otherwise insured?

The reason for the question is as follows: We are about to get a new car for my wife. Her insurance company want a stupid sum of money to keep 1 month's temporary cover on the old car. So, it we choose not to insure it, can I legally drive it (since it doesn't belong to me)? It is worth sufficiently little that a fire/theft incident is not a big concern.

Patt@firstime

Yes the other car does need to be insured

Richard_P

Yes a car must have it's own policy.

A good example of why is that if the car is left parked on a road and it rolls back and hits another car who's going to take responsibility? It won't be your company as they only cover it third party when driven by you.

David Lock

Well that's what I have always thought but I asked my insurance company that specific question. NO other car does NOT have to be insured. Yes it surprised me but that came from L&V. I asked because I am trying to sell an old Jag' and don't want to cough up a couple of hundred for insurance just to drive it around the block. So I may transfer ownership to the Mrs and then I would be insured. dl

fast bloke

So you buy a mini for 50 quid and an Enzo (in the wifes name), insure the mini and you are saying you are covered fully comp in the Enzo?

SiDHEaD

Wouldn't be insured for theft tho FB..

Thought the car only needs to be otherwise insured if u leave it parked on a public highway.

fast bloke

wouldn't be insured for anything other than TP. I have the misfortune of working in the insurance industry and the stuff David has posted is 100% incorrect. I was merely trying to make a point



p.s. - - just because

r32

It doesnt have to be insured on its own, and you are covered just for third party, no more so pretty basic.... dont forget you cant tax it on your policy either.....

David Lock

As above. No I am not saying it would be coverered for fully comp. I would guess it would be bare minimum. But it can be useful in some circumstances. I also expect insurance company would be a bit iffy if you started taking the **** driving Lambo on 2CV insurance DL

David Lock

OK - I am quite happy to accept what you say if you work in the biz. However I did ask the question quite clearly to my insurers, L&V (not some bloke in the boozer), and that is what I was told. As I said it surprised me and I may well check again. David

David Lock

No it f,ucking well isn't I double checked again with my own insurance company. I can use my "drive another car" clause to drive another car not owned by me and it doesn't itself have to be insured. This gives me Third Party only cover. DL

Richard_P

An uninsured car can't be on the road, how would you tax it? I would get that in writing before you drive the car as it's probably just a couple of misinformed agents you've had on the phone.

i love scooby snacks

Im with David on this one. I'm with AXA insurance (now part of RAC) and I checked with them a while back when I needed to borrow my brothers car. I can drive any car tptf as long as I am not the registered keeper. My policy does not state it has to be insured. I though this was odd and rang and had it confirmed. I know this is not the case for the majority of insurance policies so I guess its down to the small print on each.

tony

David Lock

Yes you need insurance to tax it but this can be cancelled the next day. I spoke to two separate people at L&V and I don't think they were the sort to give out duff information and my question/s couldn't have been clearer. My own interest is as stated above in that I am doing up an old Jag' (taxed to 2006) to sell (having replaced it with another car and swapped insurance cover) and didn't want to take out another new policy just to drive the thing down the road once or twice; so if ownership was changed..... DL

Big Daz

I agree entirely with Davids statements, I asked the same question recently and was given the same answer. I needed to move the track car a few miles a couple of times before my trailer was ready and was told this was Ok as long as the car was not in my name. I also asked my police contacts for their views and ws told as long as the insurance cert says "includes third party" for vehicles not owned by me, it would be Ok.
Daz

Jiggerypokery

I asked three separate people at Direct Line (nearly) the same thing - but I stressed the point each time that the car belonged to me - I was told it was fine. The fourth time I phoned (I was sure they were wrong), they told me that the car had to be registered to someone else AND it needed to have its own insurance (the owner needs to provide this part of the cover).

This was backed up by a thread on 5ive-o and I am no longer insured with direct line - they are a complete bunch of numpties.

Richard_P

The car has to be owned and insured by someone else, anyone from a insurance company who tells you anything different is misinformed or more likely not informed at all.

Richard_P

This is taken from the l&v site, it doesnt mention that it has to be insured but it states it can't be your car.

If we agree to provide cover for driving other cars this is restricted to:

the policyholder only;
a private motor car not owned by the policyholder and not hired to the policyholder under a hire purchase agreement;
vehicles registered in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands;
third party cover only.

Loss of or damage to the vehicle being driven under this extension is not covered.

http://www.lvgiiq.com/lv/motor/cover.asp

right at the bottom of the page.

David Lock

Sorry Richard - I am getting confused here!

You say that the other car has to be insured but then in your next post link to the L&V site where this is not a stipulation and it must be reasonable to assume that they would state this if insurance was required surely?? This just backs up what L&V told me (twice) on the phone. Plus there is no small print on my Insurance Cert' or schedule about other car being insured. David

davegtt

This is how I understand it and how Ive always believed it to be... otherwise anyone whos anyone would have high class vehicles and using an old banger for the insurance... I certainly would if I thought I could get away with it....

if you got stopped by the police and given a producer would you get away with going in with the details and an insurance certificate claiming you can drive any other car???? thats the bit Id be interested in...

Richard_P

From what I saw of your post I assumed the jag was in your name? I was just warning you this would not be covered.

http://www.17to40.co.uk/content/faq/...ther_cars.html

This page claims the car does need to be insured on it's own policy.

David Lock

Thanks Richard, yes Jag' is in my name at present but this thread made me speculate if owner was changed to pal of mine or even Mrs L then I could drive it and be insured - not as an abuse but just to try and sell it. It's old and worth very little so an extra keeper/owner on log book won't make any material difference. DL

Richard_P

That would work then. Maybe worth a quick post on 5-0 forum or a call to your local police station just to check if you'd be covered without the other car being insured.

fatherpierre

The 'other' car you are driving has to be insured by the owner. If the car you are borrowing isn't covered by a policy then you are not insured, regardless of the policy you have on your own vehicle.

I have spent the past 5 weeks checking people's documents (amongst other things) after they received producers.

David Lock

So why does my insurance company specifically tell me that is not the case (and it wasn't some wet-behind-the-ears-kid I was speaking to)?

And if I was asked to produce evidence and I showed you my Insurance Certificate that stated I could drive another car not belonging to me with no proviso about it being covered by owner what would you produce to show I was breaking the law?

Not a dig but genuine questions..... David

PS. And why shouldn't an insurance company offer this sort of cover if it helps their clients?

fatherpierre

Maybe you're insured in their eyes and they would pay out.

It's a complex area, but all I know is that if you were stopped in someone else's car and it was not covered by a policy (police now have a database) you would receive a court summons after being processed by the officer stopping you. Or, if you were very unlucky a £200 on the spot fine and 6 points on your licence - or even arrested.

If you brought docs into a police station after a producer with the 'cover' mentioned you would be cautioned on the spot and receive a court summons after the CJU had looked into the situation.

Hoppy

So I phoned Clare at A-Plan (01635 874646) who do a lot of business with ScoobyNetters, specialising in modded cars at their Thatcham office. She's very helpful and knowledgeable, and I discovered that she also reads ScoobyNet regularly...

She told me that all policies are different and different rules will apply, but with A-Plan policies through Markerstudy Ins Co Ltd such I have, and which are not untypical, I can drive any car not belonging to me: a) with the owner's permission, b) third party only, c) because I am over 25 and have held a full license for over a year.

The only time this does not apply is if my car is no longer available to me, ie sold, stolen, or off the road because of accident damage, because the other car (or cars) would then become my main vehicle and I would have to transfer or take out additional cover. The other car does not have to be insured at all, by anyone.

Basically, this is a service often extended to experienced drivers over 25 because it's very useful to them and generally low risk for the insurance company. It is not a loophole for registering your Impreza/Ferrari in your wife's name, taking out a policy for a Group 1 banger, and driving around happily with an extra few quid in your pocket.

If stopped by the police and given a producer you might get away with it, but if the police are suspicious, you could be in hot water. Certainly, if you then put in a claim, the insurance company will look very closely at what you've said, particularly with regard to your declaration that “no information has been withheld that might influence the underwriter’s acceptance and assessment of this insurance.” It would take five minutes to find out that actually you never drove the cheap banger and also that your wife, supposedly the owner of the Subaru, she never drove that because you were always out in it! So you’d likely get nailed on that one straight away. If, however, the insurance company did pay up on a technicality, they would then sue you for fraud.

Repeat, this is what applies to my policy taken out with Markerstudy Ins Co Ltd through A-Plan – thank you Clare You need to check your own policy to be certain.

Richard.

PS Edited to add, no connection/interest with A-Plan

Jiggerypokery

You may find that they will wriggle out of this in the event of a claim

Take the example where you park in town, on a hill, get out and do some shopping. Firstly, the car is on a public road without insurance. You are insured if you run into a third party when driving it, but the car itself is not insured when there is no-one driving it.

Secondly - the handbrake cable on the car snaps and the car rolls into a Ferrari writing it off. Who's going to pay now? The owner of the offending vehicle doesn't have insurance for it, and neither do you - you're not driving it at the time.

Jiggerypokery

russ, the resident insurance expert on the 5ive-o site, had this to say about the above scenario:

Hoppy

JP, you're right. You're only covered while actually driving.

Here's another one: you hit someone in front, get out of the car, then someone runs into the back of 'your' car. You are covered for the first ding, but not the second one

These insurance people have got it covered from all angles

Richard.