pslewis

Listening to them on TV - rewinds me back to the 70's!!

They want to reduce the teaching time, so they can do some 'marking' in the released hours!!

How about keeping the teaching times the SAME and EXTENDING the day for teachers to a normal working day - that would give them about 3 hours to do marking?

They do my head in sometimes!

Pete

Don't get me wrong, I know some superb teachers and some who give their time up for the children - but, there is a growing number who seem to just take without giving much back in return!

imprezaturbochick

My m8s a teacher n she complains if shes not home by 4!!!!!! Part timers!!!!! And they get paid for not working for half of the year!!!!!!!

(apologies to any teachers on here - just gettin rid of my anger!!!)

CrisPDuk

**** ME

Pete Lewis talks sense shocker

The NUT are THE reason the education system in this country is fubar

The comprehensive system was put in place at the expense of grammar schools to ensure that **** teachers could attain the same levels of pay as the good ones This was achieved by abolishing good schools and gradually phasing in a standard of teaching that even a w4nker couldn't get wrongmad

andrewdelvard

Yep there's no doubt about it teaching in the UK is a breeze. Honestly you won't know what to do with all the spare time you have. The holidays! Well I'd needn't say anything about those right Here, http://www.fasttrackteaching.gov.uk Go on. Do it. It'll be the best thing you ever did.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

All teachers look like that.....

Abdabz

LOL my missus is a primary school teacher - gets 12 weeks hols per year - works through most of them - brings work home most evenings during term time too... I get 6 weeks hol per year - never bring any work home with me. She has to deal face to face with aggressive slightly retarded parents on a regular basis - I work in an office and have to go in meetings and discuss business strategy zzzz.
They dont have it easy - I used to think they did until I met her...
I like mammals - this is unrelated to this thread - but I need to pump up my biks tyre - wibble.

pslewis

They don't have it hard either ...... although they might tell you they do!

I have 2 sisters who are teachers, one in primary and one in secondary - I have a lot of dealings with teachers and respect their profession.

But, the are always moaning, always complaining, always think they are hard done by ............. the money is excellent, the holidays are unmatched in their generosity!

Pete

pslewis

Plenty of heads of departments get around £43k

Most teachers are well into the £35k+ area

2 weeks off at Xmas

2 weeks off at Easter

1/2 Term weeks

6 weeks off in Summer

All the Bank Holidays

Home at 4pm (Senior Management Team members give more in hours, however)

Sick leave

Free ski-ing trips to Austria

Free 'exchange' trips to France/Germany/Italy

Free 'Adventure' trips to ______________ insert place teachers vote to go to

VERY Good Career to get into!

Pete

Iain Young

Hmm, I'd like to know where you get your information from. Or more interestingly, I'd like to know where these schools are (as I suspect location has something to do with it).

I have a lot of friends who work either as teachers in schools, or in support roles (lab technicians etc). I think most of them would strongly disagree with what is being said here.

For example, one friend is a teacher in one of the local Swindon secondary schools. She works probably 12-14 hours a day, including weekends. And as for this fabled 6 weeks off a year, it doesn't exist. She works through most of it. Gets paid about 20k a year as well so the wages are not great. This situation is the same for all the teachers I know, (both in secondary and primary schools, although it does not seem quite as bad in junior).

Another is a head of department, and gets paid nowhere near what you are suggesting pete.

There are very few teachers in the higher wage bracket, (most of them approaching retirement). Add to this, the possibility of being sued every five minutes, constant abuse from the children, etc etc, I can't imagine why anyone would want to do the job.

Interestingly, all of the teachers I know say the biggest problem is that they have far to much paperwork to do, and just wish they could get on and do some proper teaching....

Iain Young

Maybe in the exclusive well off areas, but certainly not around here. Most of the teachers I know are in the 15-20k range

Not true. It's just the kids that gett all that time off. Teachers are actually expected to work for most of that time, (planning, paperwork, training etc).

hahahahahahahahahaha

More like get home at 4pm, then start work on the paperwork, finish at around midnight, then get up again at 7am to get to school for a 8am start the next day.

So what, everyone should get that...

Well, if you want to spend your entire holidays looking after 40+ kids and all the agro that goes with it then fair enough. None of the teachers I know has ever been offered the oppotunity to go on trips like this...

If you say so. I know several people who have left, and have been very grateful that they have done so....

Iain Young

Trouble is that teachers starting pay isn't great, the hours are very long, the working conditions can be almost intollerable, and you have to do years of training before you can apply. There is a very great shortage of good teachers out there as the more intelligent people out there are simply no longer choosing it as a profession...

Iain Young

In which case they must have recently raised the starting salary. A friend of mine started as a nqt last year and she was on 16k.

Iain Young

Looked at those pay scale, and I must say that nobody I know fits into the higher wage brackets. One of them is head of music the whole local authority (not just one school), and still only gets paid around 30k a year, despite working a 60-70 hour week...

midget1500

LOL - once again PSLewis trolls and talks crap and yet we all feel we have to chip in.

My mum is a teacher and has anything but an easy job, i'm not even going to waste my time explaining or justifying it.

Like all professions, I'm sure you get good people and bad people - but to make sweeping generalisations is pathetic pete, wise up.

pslewis

I KNOW what I am talking about!! This is NOT a troll thread midget!!

Take a look at the pay scales above .... BUT, lets NOT forget to add on the Management Points given out if a teacher does some copying or filing!! These ADD up to £11,000 per annum!!

Remember too the 6 monthly pay rises!! YES, its true!! Increment rise + Whatever the NUT can squeeze out of the taxpayer by crying that pay is too low!!

Remember also to add £1500 retention and recruitment allowances!!

So, ok, take the teachers BASIC wage of Upper Pay Scale 3 = £33,306 .... yes, thats right!

ADD, what? Management point 5? = £10,572 ..... YES, in ADDITION!!!

Lets say you help out with Special Needs? = £3,480 .... YES, in ADDITION!!!

So, thats, what????

£47,358!!! YES, I'll repeat that for the hard of understanding £47,358!!!

You can add £1500 if there is a retention allowance too!!

Never, ever, let ANYONE try and tell you that Teachers are not richly rewarded!!!

HOWEVER, Learning Support Assistants get £8,500!!! YES, £8,500 ..... THATS where Teachers attention should lie!

Pete

Iain Young

You obviously were not listening Pete. I can show you numerous teachers, working silly hours per week, and not earning anywhere near that much. Besides everyone I know in the teaching profession don't moan so much about the wages, but the working conditions. Under staffed, under resourced, abusive and violent pupils, 60 plus hour working week. I could show you a lot of people who do a lot less in other professions, and earn a lot more.

Strange that people object so much to paying decent wages to the people educating the future subjects of this once great nation. I presume you also object to the consultants and doctors at hospitals that get paid so much?

Dracoro

Iain, Pete likes to talk, he never listens. As his following posts will no doubt prove

midget1500

pete - my mum isn't on that sort of money and she is the head of a school and has been teaching for 30 years. she works damn hard and does everything for the kids that she can.

several of my friends are teachers and here it is almost impossible as a new teacher to get a full time job before you are 30, everyone has to temp in god awful schools and getting a mortgage etc, is very difficult. anyone can pull up some bloody payscale chart, so what, **** all to do with the real world. being a teacher today is a thankless task and all you get is bullsh1t from the kids and parents and then there are all the frivelous lawsuits to contend with. i for one would not be a teacher.

and you come on here spouting crap about you don't know how people get out of bed for less than 50k!!

Abdabz

PSLewis - dont say this is not another troll thread... Your contribution from start to finish is laced with sh1te - I'm trying so hard not to bite - but do us all of a favour and go and play on a motorway - without teaching supervision...
Iain Young - well done for seeing the profession as I have second hand but close up - my missus has been teaching for 6 years, and is (like me) on less than 30k despite points for "copying and faxing"... Midget you too have a good idea whats involved...

GC8

Is this a tacit admission that you start trolling threads Peter? Surely not!

Simon

Mungo

Some of you guys seem to have been sucked in by the NUT party-line. Even given that the published job scales are only for fast-track teachers, I don't believe that a FULLY QUALIFIED teacher will be earning £5-10k under the minimum.

Are youre friends just not terribly inefficient? Granted, they are employed as teachers and not administrators (different political football) but how on earth can somebody spend 20-30 EXTRA hours a week on admin? I could expand my job to take that long, I just don't.

The "years" taken to qualify don't really cut any mustard with me either - I'm an accountant and that took 3 years on top of the 4 years I'd already spent at university. I was 28 before I was qualified but I understood it was a qualification which would last my whole career if I chose. Teachers need to understand that their training is an investment in their futures too. They don't need to show the VICTIM card the whole time.

pslewis

Strange isn't it how people who know NOWT spout utter crap!!

I am responsible for the pay of a large number of teachers and I KNOW what each and every one gets .... I am NOT about to disclose who/what .... suffice it to say that what I say is ABSOLUTELY correct!!

Can ANYONE dispute my figures given and copied below?? No, thought not!

Pete

To re-state the truth:-

BASIC wage of Upper Pay Scale 3 = £33,306 .... yes, thats right!

ADD, what? Management point 5? = £10,572 ..... YES, in ADDITION!!!

Lets say you help out with Special Needs? = £3,480 .... YES, in ADDITION!!!

So, thats, what????

£47,358!!! YES, I'll repeat that for the hard of understanding £47,358!!!

You can add £1500 if there is a retention allowance too!!

Iain Young

So how many teachers do you personally know then Mungo?

I'm not at all sucked in by the NUT party line, and in fact the none of the teachers I know are actually members of the NUT. They are members of the PAT (Professional Association of Teachers), who do not believe in strike action etc because it can damage childrens education.

My friends are not inefficient at all (in fact they are some of the most efficient people I know), there is is just so much work to do that it takes that long to get through it. For example, the teaschers day is taken up in school entirely with looking after and teaching the kids. When they get home, they then have to mark any work handed in over the course of the day, prepare lessons for the next day, and write reports on each child (in the case of special needs schools etc).

For example, one friend is a music teacher, travelling between different schools. Over the course of the week, he drives around 500 miles, teaches about 100 children a day, and has to write reports for all of them, (on top of other administration chores like day to day running of the music service, handling parents etc). He gets up at about 6am, gets in from work at about 7pm, starts writing up reports until about 11pm, then goes to bed. And for all that, he gets paid about 30k a year.

My dad (now thankfully retired), was a teacher in a special needs primary school. He eventually took early retirement, because it was either that or (literally) die of exhaustion / nervous breakdown because of the amount of work he had to do, (was working from 8am to 11pm every day, including a lot of weekends). Taken him nearly 3 years to recover. He only got paid 35k a year for that, and that included his special needs allowance. Add to that he always had bruises etc from being continually kicked, thumped etc by the kids, and even being threatened by abusive parents!!!

You may have a choice about how much work you get to take home. Teachers don't. It's expected. The amount of paperwork that the government expect the teachers to produce is just silly. It's all the fault of the national cirriculum. someone ought to take it out into a field and burn the whole thing IMO. Let teachers do what they do best...Teach!!!

You say you're an accountant. How can you possible provide an informed opinion about the subject unless you personally know people involved in the proffession?

pslewis

With all due respect your mum is clearly Head of a tiny school, with maybe 3 staff and 50 pupils!

Heads get paid on the Leadership spine according to the number of pupils and their ISR ....... if she is not getting at least £45k for being a Head (of even a tiny school) then I allow you to draw your own conclusions as to why.

It is VERY common for Heads of 1500 pupils to get £80k ..... plus a car! I consider, for one, that most Heads actually deserve a decent wage ..... but they are NOT members of the NUT are they and that is the thread topic!

Pete

Iain Young

We only have your word for that. I have about 6 close friends (in the Swindon and Oxfordshire districts) who are teachers, and they definitely do not get paid anywhere near what you are suggesting.

So which local authority do you work for then Pete? I had no idea you worked for the council....

pslewis

You really are showing yourself up now!! Temping in Teaching is called being a 'Supply' Teacher ..... and they do that for one VERY good reason!! They get EVEN MORE money!! £50k is easy doing supply - and what does a supply teacher do? sit in front of a class and do nowt generally! A £8500 a year LSA can do THAT!!

More and more schools are looking at 'Cover Teachers' as they are cheaper, but unqualified!

Pete