jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

If the universe is expanding, what is the space it's expanding into?.

Got talking at work today about the universe which ended in 4 blokes with a headache. But seriousley when you think about the universe etc it's insane.

Based on the theory that there was a big bang (not sure on this) and the universe has been expanding ever since, what is the space (not sure it's the right word) that the universe is growing into?

Only reason I say I'm not sure about the 'big bang' is because it was caused by something (gases merging or something), but where the **** did the catalysts to do this come from?, how were they created? I'm sure they it's in theory something to do with differing light particals or something where there are odd numbers of particals giving an imbalance and creating gases??

edited to add..

if the start of the universe was somthing to do with light how is this possible as there would have been no light.

If there was a big bang then there must have been some space/area for it to happen

paul-s

that last bit is exactly the rhetoric question. where did the space/gas for the big bang come from. and where did that originate. endless questions !!

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I don't think enough people actually try to comprehend what's happened/happening, but then maybe that's a good thing (for them).

[Peter Andre] it's Insania [/Peter Andre]

When you think about the theories offered currently it almost makes the religious approach seem plausable lol

The only thing that seems logical to me was that there was something pre big bang. What I mean is for there to be a meeting of said gases for the big bang to take place then there must have been some movement/turbulence to bring them together.

Don't even get me started on black holes


sorry for any poor grammer.. induced by Famous Grouse

paul-s

yes for the big bang something mustve been there before, which means the big bang was not the start of everything merely an incident that happened along the way.
its only when you try to comprehend the vastness of everything that it makes you go...oooooh.....
I just couldnt begin to explain it.

jowl

Trying to get your head around all that stuff will surely drive you insane.

Infinity....that's just crazy. Can you imaging the space will never end.....just goes on forever.

Wow

paul-s

but how upon how is it all here in the first place, i mean the whole universe. how too much to handle

^Qwerty^

Start reading stuff like this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4327161.stm

Follow the links, read more, and get very very worried about the experiments they are doing.

Some "Dr" type who sits near me at work said, "if they create a more stable environment for mass" then that's it.

I don't really understand what he meant, but I'm getting there.

paul-s

all this mass/vastness and sheer awe of everything going on...and i go and spend sunday afternoons perched at the bar in lloyds

Daz34

If the universe is expanding due to the Big Bang then eventually gravity will cause it to slow down and then start to contract. It will eventually contract to very small dense matter (massive understatement!!) until this causes..........a Big Bang. Who know how many big bangs there have been. One theory anyway

String theorists would think this is pants though.

boxst

Hello

The original big bang ...



Steve.

Buckrogers

Chicken or egg?


Always liked the ending of film MIB...

suprabeast

well you see there is always the question that "how many times has this happened?" the universe could have expanded and reduced billions of times and each time due to a different set of circumstances, whether it be that the gravity was too strong, or too weak, or the bang was not sufficient enough to push the universe apart as far.... it just so happens that we have been formed within a time where it appears (at the moment) to be stable enough to allow life to survive, however in a few million years, its could all bounce back to one ball.

Many scientists have said that if it reduces back down to a marble then the weight of the whole universe on a tea spoon would be some googleplex kgs of weight.... imagine benching that!

suprabeast

chicken would be first... the first signs of life begins with single celled organisms such as ameabas.... they evolved over many million years into what you know as a chicken, with the ability to produce offspring. Eggs just appearing would be craziness!!

suprabeast

sounds similar to a quote made earlier by me.... all that vastness expanding and people are complaining about flames from exhausts

suprabeast

theres not a space for it to happen... there is nothingness..... theres a lot of room for stuff to happen

jonc

Then of course there's God. There is no universe, God created the world in 7 days and God created human kind with an imaginative mind to ponder on creativity.

boxst

Ah, God. Mmmm. The last solace of the elderly.



Steve.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

where did god come from then?

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

The universe isn't expanding "into" anything, because there's nothing outside it. It's just expanding full stop. Since everything there is (time, space, matter etc) are part of the universe there is no outside frame of reference.

And BTW the universe is now considered to be "open", meaning the expansion will continue forever, resulting in the so-called "heat death" of the universe - in about 400 billion years time.


M

suprabeast

what happens when theres a heat death??

suprabeast

am i not right in thinking that for something to be colder, it is denser therefore the universe would need to pull back together to cool down??

suprabeast

hmmm maybe its too late to be thinking about this! i'll go to bed and pop back in the morning!!

Edcase

You need to wet the toilet paper, preferably with milk.

blueone

I thought that energy could neither be created or destroyed it could merely be converted from one form to another? So even if all the heat has gone from the Universe all the energy still remains, just in a different type of energy. As long as there is energy then there is matter. So therefore the Universe is not dependant on having heat but merely energy in any form. Just because we need heat to live does not mean the Universe needs heat to exist, no?

blueone

Also did some Scientists in the UK not decide against creating a blackhole as it could be the end of our existence? These bods seem to think it is ok to create something here that sucks all matter into it?

'Researchers may even find new dimensions and generate mini-black holes.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4327161.stm

fast bloke

guys - you need to do a lot more reading. Have a google for event horizons and escape velocities to understand black holes, white holes and ever expanding universes.

For the original question, the problem with the question is that you are trying to understand the answer based on the 4 dimension that we can understand (3 normal space dimensions and time) All of these dimensions are merely a measure of our universe, so anything that happened 'before' out universe existed cannot be explained using these 4 dimensions. To put this in perspective - imagine we gave the ancient greeks a scoob and asked them to measure BHP at the crank. The tools they had available would have been a ruler and a graduated candle. Now - how do you measure (or explain) BHP using a ruler and a candle?? you can't. You need to understand new technologies (and possibly dimensions) to do this. We do not currently have the tools or the understanding to measure or explain the universe. The main problem is that it must expand at the speed of light (anything less and it would have collapsed at the same instant that it was formed) Say there is a 'centre' of the universe, and we are for the sake of arguement, 1 light year from this centre. Also work on the assumption that the big bang happened 100 light years ago. Some of the light that was emmited from the big bang 100 light years ago is now 101 light years away. IN another 100 light years it will be 201 light years away. The only way we can ever see it is to travel faster than light. If we travelled faster than light, we would catch up with the light that was here previously. That would be time travel. We can work on the assumption that if time travel was ever going to be invented at any point in the future, then it would have already been invented, as future time travellers would surely try to abuse the power of time travel for personal gain. Given that time travel doesn't currently exist, then it will never exist, so no-one ever figures out how to travel faster than light, then we will never see the bit of the universe that is moving away at the same rate that the light it is emmitting is moving towards us



now - more beer

fast bloke

p.s. - I should add that we need to see the other side of the universe before we can hope to understand the big bang, or the dimensions involved. We can certainly create theories and hypothesis, but we can never hope to prove them without seeing the entire picture

paul-s

time travel would cause a disruption in the space time continuoum causing all existence to cease i believe.

baby bloke

Paul - who told you this??? Have they tested it

paul-s

it hasnt been tested, but if time travel were possible someone would have come back already, therefore altering the sequence of events from that point onwards causing the point in the future that this person came back at to not exist in this alternate time, therefore causing everything to cease being