Chip

Very good mate of mine was after a 18 months of investigations found to have an advanced cancer of his kidney 5 weeks ago. Was told kidney had to be removed immediately followed by a course of chemotherapy.

He was booked in for operation 2 weeks ago which was cancelled at the last minute then booked in for same op next Monday. This has today also been cancelled as well as being told that his earliest chance of having the op would be after April 5th. Even then there is no guarantee that it will be done then. It all depends on bed availability he was told. Surgeon has told him chances of survival are higher the earlier this is op is carried out.

He enquired about having the Op done privately to be told that the surgeon doesnt use BUPA but can do it privately in the NHS hospital where he was booked in to have the op done anyway.

He's seeing the consultant tomorrow and he's going to play holy **** about it but doesnt hold out much hope of getting it done any earlier. He's also contacting his MP and Welsh Assembly member tomorrow.

What the hell has happened to our once great NHS service.


Chip

Jerome

At the risk of sounding like UB , New Labour happened.

Not that it was in the best of shapes when they got it, but they certainly made sure the last couple of nails in the coffin (excuse the analogy) were hammered well and truly home.

Vegescoob

So if he pays the surgeon privately he can have the operation in the NHS hospital earlier than otherwise?
Btw, relatives who are doctors have told me they would rather have ops. in NHS hospitals because intensive care beds (ITU), if needed, are more available.
This may be the reason.

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Many private hospitals don't have intensive care units. They tend to have high dependency units, which is like the next step down, I'm told.

John.

Sith

Chip, it's very dissapointing to hear this has happened. Bit like the old lady who has had her opp cancelled so many times. People no longer matter, only the money and politics.

This is what happens when a hospital over performs. http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409194

I hope your mate get's opperated on soon.

What really p!sses me off is Bliar is fighting the election this time round saying he will fix the NHS. BUT HE SAID THE SAME LAST TIME AND THE TIME BEFORE. It's just got worse. What with more MRSA.

Vegescoob

Time to involve the media, another political party?

unclebuck

Awful news. Sorry to hear it.

I expect lewis will be along soon to tell us all that your friend's dilemma is in some way connected to 'choice'.

Chip

Yes he can have the op privately in an NHS hospital.

I too know ppl who work in private hospitals and say the same thing.

Chip

Chip

Hospital in question is UHW, the biggest in Wales by far. As it's a teraching hospital you would have thought it would be very well financed and equipped.

Chip

Alas

I'm waiting to have a kidney op as well. Been cancelled once and has now been 10 months. Mine not critical as your friends, as it is to be denervated rather than removed but meanwhile I'm on pethidine which means I'll have developed a nice habit by now

Vegescoob

This is what I've never quite understood. If I understand correctly, same surgeon, same hospital but pay privately and bingo you're in?
How come there's space earlier if private using same people (surgical team) and facilities. Presumably NHS gets cut for facilities?

Chip

Yes the NHS gets a cut of the cost of the op.

Chip

starstruck

Chip, That's really bad news. I hope your mate contacts his MP and maybe that can help.
Makes you proud to be British this sort of story.
Can you just imagine that tosser Blair explaining how is policies have helped your friend?
Give him my best wishes

SS

Vegescoob

Almost sounds as if the NHS has a vested interest in people going private then.
Not quite what the politicians say though is it?
I really do wish your friend the best for a sucessful outcome.

Doc

There are two problems at this time of year if you are waiting for surgery. Its coming up to the end of the financial year and hospitals are running out of budget. An easy way to save money is to cut operating. The second problem is the large influx of medical patients at this time of year. Surgical beds are commonly taken over by medical emergencies preventing surgical patients getting in to the hospital.
A private operation can be done quickly as there are no budget restrictions and the private beds are run seperately from the rest of the hospital. There may be surgeons who abuse the system but all the Surgical Consultants I worked for as a Junior doctor worked far in excess of their NHS contract.

Doc

I have just noticed what part of the UK you are in. Whilst the NHS in England may be struggling at least it doesn't have to endure the interference of a regional assembly who can't organise a p1ss up in a brewery but are very good at making money disappear.

Soulgirl

You say advanced cancer.. that tells me it's pretty damned. Delaying surgery will not help this person so they have put others who have a better chance in front.

Yes, he might have had private cover and enjoyed the horrid chemo earlier, but to what end? Is there metastases? What's the prognosis? It's easy to blame others when in fact there is nothing anyone can do no matter how much money they have.

Chip

Consultant told him on Thursday that the cancer will not spread from his kidney so ultimately after removal and chemo he should hopefully be OK after treatment. Still no guarantee of a date though, but its hoped to be April 5 at the moment.

Ive told him to play hell with all concerned, MPs etc which hopefully hes going to do. Not that it'll make much difference I suspect.

Chip

Soulgirl

I guess, as the Consultant states the cancer will not spread, there is no emergency surgery required. However, it must be pretty horrid knowing you have a tumor waiting to be removed. Hope the surgery goes well and that recovery is swift

Steve1968

Doc is correct in this case. The NHS in Wales is completely different to the NHS in England. Different funding, targets, monitoring etc. Not even New Labour can be blamed for this one as the responsibility entirely rests with the Welsh Assembly rather than the DoH/Government.

The waiting times and cancellation targets which hit the headlines in England DO NOT APPLY in Wales.

No comfort however for those faced with a second class system ...

Steve

Deep Singh

I'm not sure if this is much consolation but as someone 'in the job' a few weeks will not make a difference to your friends outcome.

One of the reasons the Consultant maybe able to treat him earlier privately is as follows; Consultant is fully booked for x months with other urgent cases but will do it privatley in his spare time. What he does in his spare time is up to him.

Anyway good luck, in general, outcomes from primary non metastatic renal carcinomas are good

Chip

Just what planet are you on. New Labour control the Welsh Assembly. Puppets such as Alan Michael and Rhodri Morgan just do as they are told.

Chip

Chip

Reason for cancellation is lack of HDU beds. So how come surgeon can do op is there are no beds available in the same hospital.

Chip

Chip

As I stated in my oroginal post, surgeon told him removal required immediately.

Chip

Mr Sympathy

Coming from someone very close to dilemmas like this on a daily basis i do not think the working time of the surgeon is the key issue here but the post operative care your mate needs. he needs a critical care bed for sure, these days we do not use the terms intensive care nor high dependency care but these same terms bandied about equate to a level three or a level two bed according to if your mate needs one to one nursing post operatively or one (nurse) to two (patients), he will need the latter, a level two bed.

There is limited provision and in Wales like most of the UK available critical care beds have increased but the momentum to keep all the beds open has been lost, critical care nursing is no longer attractive for a number of reasons and management culture in the NHS since target provision in the late 90's (could kill Blair just for that) has almost become bullying to the extent where waiting list needs dictate over clinical need. A few points to consider and some terms to bandy next time he is in hospital;

When does he become a 9 month breach ,all hell will move then to get him in.

Ask, and i mean quite specifically ask if his operation is postponed or cancelled, it will be the latter, then it does not figure in statistics as long as he is repeatedly given an op date in 28 days, postponements do not count.

Put in a formal letter of complaint not to the surgeon but find out who the business manager for that surgeon is, they hate complaints, you dont need to follow it through just kick start the process. going through MP's etc takes too long.

While you are at it vote in any tactical manner to get labour out as well.

Soulgirl

Mr Sympathy, he hasn't had the surgery yet so a CCU or HDD bed isn't on the menu yet. As the Consultant stated, his cancer is not going to spread from his Kidney so although the word immediate was mentioned that was a passing phrase aimed at keeping the patient positive.

Of course the kidney will have to be removed swiftly but a few days or weeks will not make any difference if the cancer is not of an aggressive nature.

If metastases is not in the equasion then 'immediate' action is not high on the agenda.

Also, no matter what government is in charge, it will not alter the way the NHS is executed. Still, a change is better than a rest I guess.

Soulgirl

No, you said
That means, in cancer talk, it's not urgent.

Soulgirl

And the 2nd class system is caused primarily by what? I vote timewasters.

Mr Sympathy

Soulgirl

What I was trying to say is he can't have the surgery until a level two post operative bed is available though, hence any surgery is off the menu because of the non-availability of a bed. For any comment on metastases I would have to see the differentiation report on the pathology.

Sorry, but I do believe a change in government will change the NHS and the way it runs, see the bullying from managers to nurses who pose any delay to four hour trolley waits and breaches and do not cancels and you will see what I mean, these people get paid more if targets are hit they have no moral concern, only financial and career motivation.

You on a night again tonight? I am, lets continue debate eh?

Chip do keep us updated, I will speak to my friends in renal.