LG John

I was out in my mates Elise yesterday and he entered a corner quite fast on a trailing throttle and the backend slid a couple of degrees. It was all quite slow and a little opposite lock was enough correction on this occassion. I'd like to think it was skills but he admitted he didn't anticipate it and near sh@t himself

But I got to thinking, if he'd been going much faster and lifted off harder how the hell would he recover it in a rwd car? In my vts I used to be able to induce obscene angles of drift and still bring it back with some throttle application. Logic tells me that throttle application through the rear wheels when those wheels are sliding in an arc would just make the situation worse and cause power oversteer! But on the basis you need some power to sort lift-off oversteer you seem to be pretty stuffed unless you have fwd or 4wd? What do you do to avoid the hedge?

And just to avoid the tumbleweed in 'Driving Techniques' as a sub topic we can discuss the mating habits of the lesser-burbury'd chav

matchmaker

Depends on the car I suppose, but steer into the skid and put on a bit of power seems a general rule.

Of course the best policy is not to lift off if at all possible

I learned to drive in a 1964 Triumph Vitesse 1600. The rule in that was not to lift off in a corner under any circumstances

If you did you got worse oversteer than a 911 turbo

ajm

I'll get in there early....

what about lift off oversteer plus fuel surge?!?

LG John

You got the order wrong, fuel surge came first then the lift-off oversteer....without the lift

CTR

Some throttle with opposite lock applied. Fine balance between applying too much throttle and making the slide worse(or better), and applying the right amount to give the rear wheels some grip. Having said that if you go into a corner way way too fast I think youre stuffed.

P.S. In the dry lifting off is the only way I can really make my Elise oversteer. No power

P.P.S. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~higdon/liftoff.avi In slightly too fast, trailing throttle

NotoriousREV

I drove a Boxster S on a trackday and managed to do a full throttle lift off at 3 figure speeds. My thought process went along the lines of "What? Wait a minute, why did you do that? Oh ****, I've just lifted off in a mid-engined car at high speed, this is going to get expensive and possibly painful". As it turns out, it didn't even twitch, unlike my ****.

Don't know the answer to your question, though

Jap2Scrap

My old MR2 (rev 1 Mk 2) was a bit of a biter when it came to LOO. I used to find that shutting my eyes tight and going, "Aaaarghhhh, shiiiiiiiiiiitttt..." used to do the job.

Seriously though, steer into it and try and even out the throttle to maintain the wheel speed. Too much throttle and you're snapping the other way and in some serious trouble. Too little and you'll manage about 180 degrees.

mj

RWD - is this not to do with the revs/gear at the time?

engine braking the back wheels?

maybe not in a touqey 3.0L porker in 5th

FWD is a different animal maybe, lift off dips the front,balance gone, lifting the inside rear???

Bubba po

This is all great advice and wonderful theory, but what he needs to do is practise all this in a safe environment over and over again until his back-brain knows the corrective moves instinctively. He's never going to be able to think what to do in the time it takes for everything to go pear-shaped, if it suddenly happens to him on the road...

Or he could slow down a bit.


(P.S. Sorry about talking about you in the third person.)

mj

old chinese saying:

"If you have to lift off drastically mid-bend, you were going too ******* fast in the first place".












[ I made that up, but it sounds plausible ]

LG John

You can't be talking about me Bubba cause my car is FWD not RWD. I was just curious and it seems I have my answer: smooth applicaiton of a little gas!

I do however plan to get an S2000 which are known to be a little on the twitchy side so its good to be clear in my head now

Bubba po

Ah-too focking light Glasshopper....



-Master po

mj

its reassuring to know you are learning to drive a fast car with a keyboard, not a steering wheel & throttle

jfrf

think in this short elise video the oversteer is corrected by hard braking as the tyres seem to lock
Dont quote me as Im certainly no expert

http://www.graham-walsh.com/carlimits/carlimits.wmv

http://www.carlimits.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&start=15

john_s

iTrader: (1)

I thought the elise and VX lads just crashed them, then blamed it on diesel on the road.

John

Diablo

By asking in the correct forum Kenny..LOL.....

LG John

Our sub-topic would be not be appropriate in the other forum hence it had to be posted here

OllyK

Your sub topic is likey to see this heading towards muppets which may not be the best place to get advice on driving techniques!

Dream Weaver

Usually 2 rules for RWD:

1. If too much power causes the slide, back off.

2. If inertia caused the slide, boot it to get rear grip and straighten out.

And various degrees in between those and either side.

Leslie

More or less what you said SB. One of the best track corners around for trying this is Gerards Bend at Mallory Park. I used to do exactly what you said with my sports racer which was RWD and you could "play tunes" with the back end in a full 4 wheel drift by lifting off and re-applying power as required to balance the car. One of my favourite corners as you might imagine.

As you change the power setting, the weight transference changes from front to rear wheels and back again and affects the roadholding of the front and rear wheels in turn.

Les

Dream Weaver

Gerards is murder for oil surge as well, rather than fuel surge

Leslie

Haha, yes you are right there alright Dreamweaver! Dry sump was the best way around that.

Les

LC Geezer

It's very hard not to lift of completely when the back end steps out. It's an instictive thing for most people - "ohhhhhhhh I'm sliding. I don't want to be doing this. I need to slow down". So, the foot come right off the gas pedal and in some instanstance, goes onto the brake pedal. If you're turning into a traction induced the skid, the rear wheels get traction again and the car suddlenly turns the other way. Weight transfer comes into it too but let's ignore that for now

The trick is to overcome the instinct to lift off comepletly. If the rear slide has been induced because of too much speed, more throttle is sometimes the answer. If the slide has been induced because the rear wheels broke traction ("power slide"), then less throttle is usually the answer, BUT NOT NO THROTTLE. It's hard just to back off a little bit rather than completely but that's what is required in order get traction back slowly (and therefore in a controlled manner). Needs lots of practice and that's the problem - finding somewhere safe and sensible to practice.

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

Do a SIDC airfield day, you practice this time and time again. Well worth every single penny.

Diablo

LOL

Is this still here

Kenny,

When are you going to admit that you are just a cr@p driver



D

mik

That looks very like left-foot-braking with the throttle applied hard to me....

LG John

Seems a bit unfounded given that I'm simply curious about rwd cars and don't even have one? I can induce and recover lift-off oversteer in my 1500kg 406 if I want so I am familure with 'sliding'. Do you think I'm wrong for wishing to expand my knowledge?

Diablo

LOL

Lighten up mate (were there not enough smileys for you )

its just that you seem to have a disproportionately high number of "**** me I nearly crashed" type posts compared to most

D

LG John

I had one that I can recall! And the difference is I post them.


So

Leslie

The best rule of thumb is when you do something that generates a result that you don't want, just remove the cause!

Works very well in most cases.

Les