Lets say you are driving down the road.....
10 January 2005, 11:05 AM
#1
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Lets say you are driving down the road.....
and you decide to overtake a dawdler. There is a junction on your right which you will have to pass during the overtake but its only 30mph or so (in a 60) and you can see its clear. Now someone decides to come into the junction and turn left, into your path. If there was a 'scrape' who would be at fault?
10 January 2005, 11:07 AM
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akward one. them pulling onto the main road for not looking both ways but are you allowed to overtake passing a junction, depends on the laws of the road I suppose
10 January 2005, 11:14 AM
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tricky question....
1. Suppose it's not a safe place to overtake near a junction...
2. You should not affect the flow of traffic when joining a main road ??
I'm on the fence...............
phil
1. Suppose it's not a safe place to overtake near a junction...
2. You should not affect the flow of traffic when joining a main road ??
I'm on the fence...............
phil
10 January 2005, 11:23 AM
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Yes thats the point, is it worth the risk?
So much traffic around now that it could so easily happen, even if it is the responsibility of the guy coming out of the junction to make sure it is clear.
Les
So much traffic around now that it could so easily happen, even if it is the responsibility of the guy coming out of the junction to make sure it is clear.
Les
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10 January 2005, 11:42 AM
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Traffic on the main road has right of way. Unless there are double solid white lines in the middle of the road opposite the junction it is not illegal to overtake there. It might be inadvisable, however. 
10 January 2005, 11:44 AM
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They would be at fault, thats why theres broken white lines at junctions. It is your duty to stop at "T" Junctions and only pull out when safe to do so
Had something similar happen many years ago. I was travelling down the road when a car pulled out of a junction (turning left). He encountered a parked car straight after he pulled out, he tried to take the car before i got level but he couldn't and he scraped my car (company car) down the side. When i came to opt out of my company car scheme, i recieved a letter from my companies insurer saying i had been driving for XX years with them and i had been blame free of accidents during that time
So i guess he was at fault!
Had something similar happen many years ago. I was travelling down the road when a car pulled out of a junction (turning left). He encountered a parked car straight after he pulled out, he tried to take the car before i got level but he couldn't and he scraped my car (company car) down the side. When i came to opt out of my company car scheme, i recieved a letter from my companies insurer saying i had been driving for XX years with them and i had been blame free of accidents during that time
So i guess he was at fault!
10 January 2005, 11:57 AM
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From the highway code.
Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words MUST / MUST NOT. In addition the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence.
You MUST NOT overtake
if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you (but see Rule 108)
if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line
the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing, especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross
if you would have to enter a lane reserved for buses, trams or cycles during its hours of operation
after a 'No Overtaking' sign and until you pass a sign cancelling the restriction.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD regs 10, 22, 23 & 24, ZPPPCRGD reg 24
DO NOT overtake if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, when you are approaching
a corner or bend
a hump bridge
the brow of a hill.
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.
if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you (but see Rule 108)
if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line
the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing, especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross
if you would have to enter a lane reserved for buses, trams or cycles during its hours of operation
after a 'No Overtaking' sign and until you pass a sign cancelling the restriction.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD regs 10, 22, 23 & 24, ZPPPCRGD reg 24
DO NOT overtake if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, when you are approaching
a corner or bend
a hump bridge
the brow of a hill.
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.
Last edited by Bubba po; 10 January 2005 at 12:00 PM.
10 January 2005, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by The Highway Code
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
at a level crossing
when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.
Originally Posted by The Highway Code
The approach to a junction may have a 'Give Way' sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1), reg 16(1) & 25
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1), reg 16(1) & 25
10 January 2005, 12:20 PM
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Overtaking at a junction is one of the most stupid things you can do. I was a passenger when my 'mate' driving overtook at a junction (doing 40/50). One of the cars being overtaken turned right, mate swerved and smack into a tree, car complete mess and I was in hospital and could hardly move for a month (badly bruised ribs, amazingly none broken!).
You have to drive 'for' others. The person you're overtaking might suddenly think 'oh! that's my turning', not bother to indicate and see nothing coming the other way and turn and it's all one big mess.
Also someone could come up the other road quickly and turn (as you describe) and smack.
Yes anyone should look both ways but we all make some assumptions that people won't be stupid enough to do these sort of manoeuvres and don't bother looking. e.g. going down a one-way you rarely expect someone to come the other way etc.
Remember, the majority of accidents I see all happen at junctions.
You have to drive 'for' others. The person you're overtaking might suddenly think 'oh! that's my turning', not bother to indicate and see nothing coming the other way and turn and it's all one big mess.
Also someone could come up the other road quickly and turn (as you describe) and smack.
Yes anyone should look both ways but we all make some assumptions that people won't be stupid enough to do these sort of manoeuvres and don't bother looking. e.g. going down a one-way you rarely expect someone to come the other way etc.
Remember, the majority of accidents I see all happen at junctions.
10 January 2005, 12:33 PM
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If there was a junction, it's highly likely that the white lines were the "hazard" lines (long white lines with a short gap) and your insurance company won't look too kindly on it (the police may also threaten driving without due care).
Something similar happen to my father-in-law (hidden junction, tractor he was overtaking turned right without indicating). The police said that the hazard lines meant he should have been aware of the danger and wanted to do him for due care and attention, but being in his mid-70's he decided to give up his licence instead. The insurance company agreed with the police and admitted 100% liability.
Something similar happen to my father-in-law (hidden junction, tractor he was overtaking turned right without indicating). The police said that the hazard lines meant he should have been aware of the danger and wanted to do him for due care and attention, but being in his mid-70's he decided to give up his licence instead. The insurance company agreed with the police and admitted 100% liability.
10 January 2005, 01:20 PM
#17
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Almost got caught on this some time ago. Long straight (country road) with good visibility but junction on right some way ahead - clear. Pull out to pass, accelerating alongside when ahead I see car come to junction and pull out into my path. Just has enough time to pull in to the sound of two sets of horns.
10 January 2005, 01:39 PM
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My driving instructor told me that when pulling out of a junction to go left it was vital to look to the left and not just right because an overtaking vehicle coming from the left had right of way.
He did go on to say that overtaking in this fashon was one of the more stupid things you could do on the road, as mentioned above. But.....
....lets say, from the original example the vehicle you are overtaking is stationary. Unless you want to wait there all day, you are going to have to overtake it....
He did go on to say that overtaking in this fashon was one of the more stupid things you could do on the road, as mentioned above. But.....
....lets say, from the original example the vehicle you are overtaking is stationary. Unless you want to wait there all day, you are going to have to overtake it....
10 January 2005, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Belmondo
and you decide to overtake a dawdler. There is a junction on your right which you will have to pass during the overtake but its only 30mph or so (in a 60) and you can see its clear. Now someone decides to come into the junction and turn left, into your path. If there was a 'scrape' who would be at fault?
Simon
10 January 2005, 02:22 PM
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At the end of the day is doesn't matter who is 'right', it's best to avoid having the collision in the first place. Not overtaking at a junction is a good way to avoid a collision.
10 January 2005, 03:16 PM
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I too would not perform said manvoure due to the junction ahead verily verily. Me and my trusty steed would await the passing of the junction before again checking the opportunity to safely perform said manouvre without the fear of a nasty impact...
Performing the manouvre when there is a junction midway through it would be the actions of a donkey saddler who has stolen his masters horse and who's vision would be impaired by the large ***** dangling from said riders fod.
Performing the manouvre when there is a junction midway through it would be the actions of a donkey saddler who has stolen his masters horse and who's vision would be impaired by the large ***** dangling from said riders fod.
10 January 2005, 04:28 PM
#23
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At the end of the day is doesn't matter who is 'right', it's best to avoid having the collision in the first place. Not overtaking at a junction is a good way to avoid a collision.
Isn't it about time we all started taking responsibility for our own mistakes. If you overtake on a junction you are playing russian roulette.
10 January 2005, 04:48 PM
#24
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And don't forget all those "hidden" junctions that are not marked. Here I'm thinking of house drives, pub carparks, petrol stations etc. from which many drivers will exit having only looked one way.
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