floods

Hi All.

In a bit of a sticky situation.

I was stopped by the Police earlier in the week for no insurance (wait a sec...). They supposidly did a scan on my reg and it came up as not insured.

He asked me if I had insurance I said I had and I had ordered it the week before. This is true. I had ordered the insurance for the car the week before I was stopped (8 days prior). I had done this online, so I thought I would be recieving my documents and my car had been added to the insurance database, so I was fine to drive.

I was then given a producer. He said if there was any problems with the documents coming through, then phone him (he gave me his number). Now naturally I was worried as I thought I was insured. So I phoned up the insurance company and had a chat...it seems they have no record of me ordering insurance!! however they were able to tell me the type of car I was driving by me giving them my name. There excuse for this was I had got quotes but not actually bought the insurance. Now I remember clearly filling out my card details and following instructions. After this it became apparant that I was not insured for that week technically, even though I presumed I was.

So what I did after I found out I wasn't insured (me thinking I was! ) is I ordered insurance straight away so I could drive the car. What I did (in my panic'd state) was phone'd the police to talk to the sarge who stopped me. He wasn't around but I was asked to leave a message and he would get back to me. I have heard absolutely nothing from him.

What would you guys advice here? I am thinking I need to see a solicitor soon like very soon? What worries me is that the 7 days when I am meant to produce is coming up...They asked for MOT and Insurance. I have the MOT, but obviously not insurance on that day.

Any advice is much appreciated.

mj

oh dear

No insurance = IN10+£350-£500 quid fine, and the best bit aftwerwards is the Insurance companies fcukin LOVE IN10's

It's your wallet I feel sorry for, been there myself, you need a letter or covernote from your *Insurer* quicksharp.

floods

That's what I asked for, a covernote and they said it's impossible as they have no record...which I find VERY hard to believe considering It was filled out online and they knew what car I was driving!! Should I see a solicitor in your view?

Felix.

Did they take any payment out from your account. If they did you should be insured

floods

No payment from my account...I checked the day I was stopped. So technically I wasn't, but I presumed I was.

hedgehog

Did you get a reference number or a confirmation email or anything similar from the insurance company when you ordered?

I honestly have no idea where you stand on this and suspect that your only option might be to try and show some sort of due diligence in honestly believing you had insurance. Your other route might be to phone the credit card company and ask if there was a transaction made by the insurance company, just in case they did actually take the money off your card. A long shot I know.

If you have no confirmation email or number then I suspect that even showing due diligence is going to be a tricky one.

Either way as the technical offence is driving without insurance, and as you were driving without insurance whether you knew it or not, then my guess is that any court would be bound to find you guilty and to impose at least the minimum penalty. I believe the minimum penalty is 6 points but can't recall what the fine is. More importantly with be the fact that you will get an IN10 endorsement on your license for 4 years which will probably put your insurance costs through the roof.

mj

I'm not a rozzer or insurance bod, but IMHO the policewill not be interested in your mittigating circumstances that you thought you were insured, and maybe it was a **** up with the Ins Co's online ordering system.

if it was me, I would go to the station and try and speak to the busy in question and explain your problem before you produce. If you can't speak to the person in question, then speak to another person and make sure it is all recoreded on paper whatever.

on what day do you have to pruduce the docs to the police?

EDT

forgot about them

floods

I was stopped on Tuesday. I phoned insurance company on Wednesday. On Thursday I phoned Police, I gave the clerk my story and as the officer in question was out on duty, she said she would leave a note for him and he would ring me back. I have heard nothing from them.

I have until Tuesday to hand in my forms. Should I phone the police again on Monday? Or should I see a Solicitor on Monday?

I can't recieve 6 points, because I have only been driving 1 and a half years. If I recieve that I have to re-sit my test and get put back to learner driver etc. And I need the car for work. Personally, I don't care if I'm fined...what I care about is losing my license.

mj

I would speak to the police on moday AM, and ask them if they think you need to see a solicitor.

At the end of the day, it is the police that decide if you loose your licence, If I were you I would keep them involved.

This is all assuming of course that you genuinley did beleive you were insured, if I was a cynical policeman I would just think you were trying to pull a flanker......until proved otherwise.

just my 2p.

floods

Good point.

As cynical as the police are, I wouldn't believe myself either! It sounds ridiculous, but It is 100% true. And even if I could prove it I doubt the police would care...they are concerned only if I had insurance on that day, not that I thought I was.

My thinking was see a solicitor and see what he/she says, and then contact police. But as you say asking Police first might be an idea. I also thought they just take into aco**** if you were insured on that day, and if not it goes straight to court and decided by the magistrate there?

Mitchy260

edited...

Mitchy260

You'll still be banned however as there's no case to answer for. Thinking is not good enough to save your license.

floods

What?

If I was lying then why would I have bothered Getting insurance in the first place...I am NOW insured, and the police know that.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd prefer if you gave advice rather than spout your mouth.

hedgehog

You may get lucky in that there might be something the police officer can do for you, such as changing the date on the paper work so it looks like you were stopped after you got insurance for example. However, this would very much be a favour and would be outside the law. You can only call that situation as you read it and while I am sure that this is a genuine error in your case I imagine that most police officers have heard every possible excuse in the book.

Technically you broke the law and so a solicitor can only make a plea in mitigation, I don't believe you have any grounds for a not guilty plea unless you can prove that you did have insurance cover at the time and it looks pretty unlikely you can do that unless the police officer concerned gives you a little helping hand. Even if you get a solicitor and you produce a good plea in mitigation as far as I can see the minimum sentence you can get is 6 points. The magistrate would be bound by this minimum sentence and I don't believe there is any scope for a magistrates court to give you less than the minimum. You may be able to get less than the minimum sentence in a higher court, clearly this would require discussion with a solicitor, but that would probably require an appeal and is not likely to be inexpensive.

An initial consultation with a solicitor specialising in motoring law (don't just go to a general solicitor as he might know less about it than you do) might be well worthwhile just to confirm where you stand. Even if this costs you a few quid at least it would either put you in a position to fight or confirm that there is nothing you can do.

This is certainly a most unpleasant and unfortunate situation as you certainly seem very genuine in your belief that you were insured etc.

floods

I don't see why they'd ban me considering I am insured and need the car, and I did fill out the quote online. Funny that when i filled it out online with another company only months earlier for another car it went through FINE. but now it didn't with this one company. Ok you could blame me for not CHECKING but then again I am relying on a company I am paying hundreds of pounds to, to actually insure me.

floods

Thanks for that. I am not lying, but I can see why people would think it. I myself would be sceptical.

I'm thinking I need to see a solicitor anyway, I should've the moment I found out the insurance company had screwed me.

mj

floods, whats the real username?

mj

...tounge wedged firmly in cheek.

Mitchy260

Internet logs will prove your case if you have 1 but you should have clicked on after not receiving a confirmation e-mail. I wouldn't drive my car unless i had seen the confirmation.

i doubt the policeman will will help, he would be breaking the law if he did. I doubt he'd believe you anyway.

You'll be doing your driving test again so you better book now as there's normally a 6 week waiting list. There's no other alternative. Perhaps you are telling the truth, i don't know only you will know that, but i can't see there being any other way out.

floods

mj, this is it.

And I'm not expecting any favours from the Police. I know they won't. I suppose my only hope is that I can try and plead my case in court. I don't really have a case though, considering I can't prove I didn't actually sit infront of a computer and fill out my details to the insurance company. Unless, I can somehow prove they must've taken the details because they actually have my quote on their systems...which I find absolutely hilarious that they have all my details on their computer, yet they didn't insure me when I asked them to. Bloody incapable Fools.

Mitchy260

Because you are in your first 2 years you will definitely lose your license. Thats a definite, so many of my mates have tolled up more than 6 points in 1st 2 years and not 1 has escaped.

Your license is only probational and this is the reason why you'll lose it. It doesn't matter if you need it, my mate had to travel 50 miles each way to his work each day, pleaded this in court and still got palmed off. He actually ended up losing his job as he had no means of transport.

mj

floods,

that must be the way you play it, but you will need to get something from the insurance Co to back up the claim.

floods

I was told that no insurance is 4-6 points depending on circumstance?

Anyway, like you say mj, I think I'll have to rattle the Insurance company for the records of me actually placing my card details on their system. That might prove I actually applied for the insurance...

Mitchy260

Try speaking to the manager of the insurance company.

They will have had your details as each and every quote is saved for a period of 60days. Your details will be on numerous insurance sites, that doesn't mean anything, it only means you've received a quote, not actually purchased it.

Or you could hand them your current insurance certificate hoping the woman behind the desk does not notice. I think this is your best bet as its only a producer.

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Would it not be stored on your computer (History files ? )
Do you know someone that can give you a company insurace ?????????

anc-sti

If you purchased online Insurance, check you history files for the day of purchase, assuming you don't delete them. This will help you in your attempts to prove you thought you had taken a policy out. But to be honest the fact you didn't do something after you didn't receive a conformation email means its going to be your liablity me thinks.

Mitchy260

I've never actually understood this 'scan on reg to see if insured or not'

Motor traders and 3rd party drivers may be driving the car, or does the car need to be insured for another person to drive it 3rd party.

Check all your e-mails even in your bulk/trash folders. You may have missed the confirmation e-mail.

floods

I'll try talking to the manager, thanks.

Well the actual producer has "record" beside the insurance cert box, so he would probably have to take down the exact date. And I have been told that the Police contact insurance companies to double check. This stops people doing false docs etc.

floods

All I know is I was driving along like a law abiding citizen, next thing I know copper stops me and says "just did a scan, you got no insurance from our records?"

hedgehog

You can't plead a case in court, as I have pointed out if you weren't insured then you are "guilty" and have no grounds for a not guilty plea. Your only hope is a plea in mitigation but this can not reduce the sentence below the legally required minimum which currently stands at 6 points for driving without insurance.

Mitchy260 is, perhaps, being a little harsh but his bottom line is correct.

Now, I don't know the exact routine in your circumstances but it is probable that you will not actually get into a court for quite a few months from now, perhaps 6 - 9. Luckily you are innocent until proven guilty and so it is likely that you can continue to drive in that time. As you rightly say you need to talk this over with someone who is qualified to comment but you must remember that it is possible that a grumpy magistrate could ban you. There currently seems to be a clamp down on driving without insurance and so there may be standing instructions to magistrates hinting that a ban is appropriate in such cases.

Going guilty with representation from a reasonable motoring solicitor is likely to cost towards £1000 so you have to weigh all this up.

If you are a young driver just past your test then I have no idea how you will get an insurance quote come next year. Try a few online insurance sites this evening and enter an IN10 as an endorsement to see what sort of quote you get.