Brendan Hughes

As NSR is normally full of rants at the state of, well, life really, here's some news to show you it ain't all bad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/d...re/3954033.stm

De Warrenne

careful mentioning guns - threads suddenly disappear.......

boxst

Hello

I think it's ridiculous that you cannot protect your own home. I've been working in Atlanta recently where they actually carry handguns (I couldn't believe half of my staff were wearing guns) anyway and they just laughed when I told them that I have absolutely no right to attack a burglar in my house.

This should change, and if anyone enters my house illegally they deserve whatever they get.

Steve.

ajm

Definately good news! Would-be burglars read it and take note!

(not that I am suggesting any of you would be on the steal! )

popeye

I wonder how many people were killed by handguns in Derbyshire last year, compared to Atlanta?

ajm

Probably more people shot in Derbyshire than Sweden, what's your point?

p.s. with our unsolved burglary rate we need a good culling. If it were legal to shoot them there would be an inevitable "spike" in gun fatalities. So long as the right people are being shot what's the problem?

popeye

Just interested as Atlanta is obviously a crime-free paradise because everyone can own a gun there.

Jye

And probably more people knifed to death in Glasgow in the past six months than people shot in Atlanta in the past year. Obviously where there is a will there is a way

boxst

Hello

You are taking me out of context. I do not believe in handguns, and do not like American society at all. Which is why I travel back and forth but live in England.

I am of course talking about the right to defend your home, with a rather blunt rolling pin if that is your preference, which is a must.

Steve.

Iwan

Interestingly, saw a program on BBC once where they were interviewing people in Switzerland about national service. Apparently Switzerland has the highest amount of privately owned firearms per head of population of any country, and most of those are assault weapons (AK47's etc).

They also have one of the lowest crime rates, especially gun crime which is apparently very low indeed.

popeye

Fair enough, but I wouldn't put up with Americans "laughing" on this subject, if they honestly believe the correct way to deal with a burglar is to engage them in a gun battle. I've never understood why shooting someone or getting shot yourself is the best way to deal with that situation.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Group buy on Tec9's anyone ?

Geezer

Top result! I only wish all judges were this sensible. The farmer shold get an award!

I can't helpl feeling there will be a civil case against the farmer by this scumbag for compensation. And he will probably get it.

Geezer

Comper100

Yep Top result, man the man a hero, and let that be a example to the scum out there, might make them think twice now!

I recon a 40% reduction atleast would be achived if the burgulars new that they wen't on the property at there own risk!

Good on him

Comper100

Petem95

Couldnt believe that outcome - with the Uk's current legal system you'd expect the victim to have to pay 10k compensation to the burglar, and the burglar to be sent on a fully expensed holiday to recover, while the victim is jailed for using a firearm.

No denying its a difficult area however, dont want to end up having people armed. Burglar should have no rights when breaking into someones house.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Those people that consider the applause for such an action an invitation to own guns and "if they honestly believe the correct way to deal with a burglar is to engage them in a gun battle" are mis-understanding the point being made.

If someone attempts to burgle your property they should be considered OUTSIDE THE LAW. This is where the term "Out-Law" comes from.

It is MEANT to be a cornerstone of our legal system, that people who commit crimes place themselves outside of its' protection.

This is a VERY important point to consider. It means if you tackle a burglar in your house you are within YOUR rights to defend that property, and if the OUTLAW is injured then that's their own stupid fault for putting themselves outside the law in the first place.

This does not advocate murdering people when they commit crimes against you or your property, just that you should be able to use reasonable force to defend the same.

THIS IS WHY THE HOUSE CRIME IS SO LOW in the States... burglars KNOW that they can be killed when entering peoples property, and move onto other areas.....

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

The local paper does state that the police DID intend to prosecute, but under the circumstances chose not to as he did not go armed with intent to wound, just to scare - that and the fact that he was scared for his life justified him carrying the weapon in the first place.

GaryK

extremely well put kieran!

De Warrenne

very difficult one this

Tony Martin imprisoned for shooting burglar in back as the burglar was trying to leave

This chap gets off as he shot bloke in leg inside his house and claims it was a 'warning'

My understanding is that reasonable force is determined by the threat to the hgouseholder - any force used as someone is leaving a property is deemed unreasonable.

I suspect a lot more 'warning' shots will be fired in the future

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Just to clarify - this was the THIRD time the victim had been burgled by the SAME man in a month.

and the burglar was on probation, AND had just been 'let off' another burglary crime!!

(and just to add insult to injury - he, he, he - he asked for another £20,000 worth burgled goods to be taken into account)

billythekid

See this is what I don’t get. People see guns as a bad thing. The govt did the same thing in 1997 by bringing in the small arms ban. A very bad decision as they now have the problem of rising gun crime in the uk.

I dont see any problem with any place that allows concealed carry of firearms. These places are often the safest and the people who carry the firearms are often much more mentally stable and further more much better trained and informed about their rights and the law.

Markus

Lets say or gun laws changed, to echo the way they are in the US. Do you think the UK would turn into the same kinda of mess that the US has?

Personally I think not. Part of the reason is the 'fear' put into people in the US by the media. Ok, so mr moore isn't totally accurate, but bowling for columbine does have some interesting points about guns and associated things.

As for the story, excellent result! We should be able to protect our homes and familes. If somone is illegally on my property, I should be able to use whatever force I deem reasonable (and it's MY defitition, not that of the law) to protect my property and family. If that means gunning down some little chav in the back, then so be it, little git should not be there in the first place.

tiggers

Markus,

Where do you get this idea of the US being in this big mess. I am currently sitting here typing this from Arizona. There is less petty crime here in one of the US's major cities than in many of the UK's provincial towns.

As for the UK having a gun law like the US don't make me laugh. The majority of US citizens have grown up in a gun culture and most have been taught to respect firearms and what they can do. If the laws were changed in the UK the place would erupt on a wave of gun violence the likes of which you can't imagine.

You've only got to look at the levels of violence in a major town in the UK on any Friday or Saturday night to imagine the carnage there would be if half of them had a gun.

tiggers.

billythekid

The US is no different mate. They have brawls in the pub and on the streets in the cities. But guns very rarely come into the equation.

It is highly unlikely that the UK will adopt anything like the same levels of gun control and laws surrounding firearms and the use of. We banned small arms in 1997 and they won’t be coming back. Be that a good or bad thing.

If there is a small change in the law that means you can use pre-emptive force on an intruder then that’s fine by me, but I cant see it to be honest.

tiggers

Sorry, but in my experience they don't. Well not to anywhere near the same extent we do in the UK anyway. Come to that the problem is nowhere near as bad anywhere else in Europe either - the 'go out to get drunk and fight' issue is very much a UK problem IMO.

Couldn't agree more, like you say it won't happen though.

Leslie

Good to see a Judge who is prepared to do a bit of real "judging" for once instead of following the PC party line.

Les

Lum

So long as any such amendment to the law allows you to defend your car as well as your house.

I wonder if it's worth keeping my granddads old stilson wrench near the bed, the one he used to use to install petrol pumps. I could get all Half Life Opposing Force on the chav with an item that just happened to be lying around

Iwan

I'm not sure if anyones mentioned it yet but the guy did only shoot the burglar with an air rifle didn't he?

If so then that's nowhere near the level of force used by Tony Martin with his shotgun, i think i'd rank an air rifle lower down the scale than a carving knife or a baseball bat. If the bloke had used anything bigger then i don't think he'd have got off with it.

popeye

What does all this have to do with the point I was making? Of couse you're entitled to have a go at someone breaking into your house, I was merely stating that I don't believe this gun-owning utopia that the handgun-lobbiests are demanding is the right way to go about things.

I tried searching for some stats on this "THIS IS WHY THE HOUSE CRIME IS SO LOW in the States" claim, but couldn't find any. I'm not disputing it, but I'm a little sceptical, so could you point me to where you got this from? Thanks.

boxst

Hello Popeye

I don't think that people should really have guns. It probably does reduce the number of burglaries, if only by the fact that some of them do get killed and injured so they wont be "going to work" for a while if at all. The not very good statistic is that 1 child a day gains access to their parents' gun and kills themselves (from television adverts I see whilst in America).

I do think that the Police should have guns and that the number of innocent people shot outweighs the advantage of armed Police. One of my favourite Robin Williams jokes: "A Policeman in England sees a burglar running away, so he shouts 'STOP! Or I'm going to shout stop again!'".

Steve.