Tony MY03WRX

My father recieved this letter through the post from a serving policeman.


8 October 2004


Dear Sir

In the early part of this year I purchased from you a Bailey Ranger GT5O Touring

Caravan for the sum of £4500.00 (Four thousand five hundred pounds). You
requested payment in cash which I agreed to.

I decided to dispose of this caravan recently and took it to a dealer at XXXXX in Dorset.

On checking the details of this caravan the dealer discovered that it was stolen in the year 2000 from XXXXXXXXX. As a result of this information the Police were informed and seized the caravan. Consequently I am now £4500.00 out of pocket.

Legally you had no title in this caravan and could not therefore transfer title to me on payment. I therefore request that you reimburse me the full amount I paid you.

I refer you to Section 12 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 which explains the legality of title.

This letter/request has been sent to you by recorded delivery and unless I have a favourable reply from you by the 30th October 2004 I will be commencing proceedings in the Small Claims Court to recover the monies.

Yours faithfully



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

My father was unaware that it was stolen when he purchased it.

Anyone know where he stands legally and who is in the wrong?

Is the policeman just trying it on?

Should he pay up or let it go through the Small Claims Court?

Thanks in advance

Tony

imlach

Not sure of the legality of the above, but AFAIK, the limit of a claim in the small claims court is £750????

Oops....£750 is max limit in Scotland. Might be £5k in England.....

fast bloke

let it go to court - the policeman is just trying it on. Did your father purchase ir privately or from a dealer?

penfold118

That sounds a bit harsh on your dad, if he could claim of you, could you not claim of the person you purchased it from....? Surely its the other guys bad luck as your dad didnt do it on purpose...?

Just comments, I havent got a clue on the legality of it all...!!!

Hope it gets sorted without to much hastle....

penfold118

If thats the case let it go to court....

penfold118

DOH.....!!!

FASTER MIKE!!

where did your father putchase the caravan from? did he get it from a dealer?
i've been out of the caravan game a few years now but there never used to be any sort of dvla style log book, so i would say it is difficult to prove who the last owner was.

mike

Patt@firstime

Go to court mate, the policeman is out of pocket not your Dad.

Dazza01

The Policeman should have checked it out before buying, its same as buying a car u can hpi it or however they check it.

Buyer beware is the saying isn't it ?

Tony MY03WRX

The caravan was purchased privately.

The maximum limit is £5000 in the Small Claims Court in England

Tony

Dazza01

Where did your dad buy it from ??

Do the same to them

hedgehog

Get over to the citizens advice folks on Monday morning and ask their opinions on it. However, don't let him get too worried about it as I think it unlikely that your father has any liability in this situation, unless it can be shown he knew the caravan was nicked. Buyer beware will work both ways here.

However, don't let him just sit on the situation, he needs to take advice asap as he may need to take some action to prove due diligence in showing that he didn't know the caravan was stolen etc.

I can imagine you also have some concern that the police officer concerned might "speak to some of his friends" in an attempt to infulence the direction of the case and with this in mind your father would be best to keep all communications and to avoid any personal encounters without a witness. Your father would also be well advised to say as little as possible under any circumstances and nothing at all until he has taken advice. The more he says the more there is to be used against him.

Personally, once he has taken advice etc. I think he will get to use one very short phrase which ends with "off."

Frosty The Snowman

I would say it's most definitely your dads problem as he was selling stolen property, doesn't matter if he was aware of the fact. the problem is your dad needs to take to court the person who sold it to him for exactly the same reasons. This is usually difficult as that is probably the b'stard who nicked it, if not and you can find them take them to court.

fast bloke

A friend of mine bough a car privately- had it HPI'd. Two months later police showed up and recovered it as it was stolen. He tried to get the money back from the person who sold it to him - no joy - he couldn't even get compensation from the HPI people. (I thought that was the whole point of it )

Tony MY03WRX

Thanks for the info and advice guys

Ill pass it all onto my old man

Tony

XRS

Dazza01 has the correct advice.

Your father did not have proper title to the caravan when he sold it. He should take the same action as that taken by the policemen on the person from whom he bought the caravan in the first place. I suggest he starts looking for as much information as he can find on this person in order to do this.

pslewis

Where did your dad nick it from?

If he bought it from a dealer, which I doubt, then he would be able to easily claim against them .......................... if, as I presume is the case, he bought it cheap from the thief - then I'm afraid he is stuffed

Selling goods that you have no legal title is illegal, whether you are aware or not ................ its a sad state of affairs but I think the buyer has a very good claim.

Pete

ajm

This passing responsibility up the chain is all well and good in theory, but surely in practise (as is the case with cars) it is usually the last "owner" that gets stung. In my experience they will only go for the seller if they can prove he knew it was stolen at the time.

I know someone who bought a cloned porsche 911 (details copied from a legit one so HPI etc was clear). He bought it in good faith and it had changed hands a couple of times since being cloned but it was seized by the police after a routine check and eventually returned to the original owner's insurance company. The only loser was this guy, the last owner. The police did not try and persue people up the chain because they were clearly oblivious of the fact it was stolen. On paper it had clean title.

He was advised not to start civil proceedings as it would get nowhere. It is my opinion that the poor bloke your Dad sold it to is pretty much stuffed. If your Dad can show receipts or similar to indicate he originally aquired it in good faith it would probably help though!

Wish

iTrader: (2)

I would tell him to Bog off. Im sure hes just trying it on.

jjones

is their a record of the chassis number on the receipt that went with the trailer? if not deny that caravan was the one sold to the policeman.

Spoon

Your fathers receipt from pikey Pete when he bought it won't help matters.

ajm

Where did he say he bought it from pslewis??

Spoon

I didn't say píss pikey Pete.

Tony MY03WRX

Any Legal Experts on here that might be able to help??


Thanks in advance

Tony

XRS

I spoke off the record to a CAB adviser before I posted my reply and tried to give a summary of the advice provided. My precis may be lacking somewhat, but I think I gave the gist of the advice. However, it is a very complicated area and not as straightforward as some on here believe.
Try your local CAB.

Tony MY03WRX

XRS

This could go on for a long time with every past owner claiming that they sold it in good faith (ie not stolen).

Surely this is a job for the police to find out who stole the caravan and then re-coupe the monies owed?

Tony

pslewis

Hmmmmm, like the police are going to give a **** (they can't be 4rsed, however - its one of their own ..... so maybe!?)

I know someone who had their house burgled .... police didn't even come out, gave them a crime number and that was it. His neighbour is a coppa, when the coppas house got burgled a week later there were 6 coppas in 3 cars in the street for 2 hours taking statements!!!

Makes your blood boil !!

Anyway, Pikey Pete has no idea who half inched the van

Pete

Tony MY03WRX

Thanks for that Pikey Pete

Tony

Tony MY03WRX

BTTT for Monday