zoog

Is torture ever justified? What would you do with him ultimately? Lock him up for life or execute him?

A difficult one this. The heart says give him a very good slapping then kill him, but the head says 2 wrongs don't make a right and we're supposed to be better than that etcetera......

gyfto1

agreed that we are supposed to be better than that,but at the same time it seems human nature to inflict suffering on all other creatures,including each other.
also find it wrong that religion seems solely used to create conflicts,and really always has.thats my ten pence worth

hedgehog

This is a very interesting and difficult one I suspect as it depends on your definition of freedom fighters and which side you take.

In the end everyone takes sides and everyone has some degree of bias. This was highlighted in the Portadown News site this week for example and many people in Ireland, regardless of political position, think the point well made:

http://www.portadownnews.com

It wasn't, and indeed still isn't, uncommon for all the Irish terrorist organisations on both sides to inflict their own law and order and it was quite a regular thing for victims to be captured, tortured and their bodies dumped in a plastic bag. (This is less common these days but in my local area 7 people have been knee capped, a fairly significant form of torture, in about a week, for example.) However, by and large these events didn't lead to much in the way of public outcry, in the UK, even when the victims were British. Some people were willing to believe that it was part of a fight for freedom, many others didn't really care.

Now that it is happening in Iraq and the terrorists are Arab rather than British/Irish there is a change in attitude and in the magnitude and nature of the reaction.

I have no strong opinion on what this tells us but I do think it reflects on us all in some manner and I'm not sure that the implications are pleasant. If you would torture or kill an Arab terrorist would you be willing to torture and kill Gerry Adams, or the leader of a "loyalist" Irish terror organisation? Are the two things the same, or do you somehow feel that they are slightly different?

It is certainly an interestion question and a huge moral problem and consideration can reveal more about your own bias and attitude than you might imagine.

wakeboardar

i would hack the *******s head off with pleasure right or wrong

Brendan Hughes

Not at all. I'd fly him to the UK for questioning in Liverpool city police station about the murder of a British subject. After questioning him, I would finally decide that it was a waste of taxpayers' money to prosecute and jail him, and decide to deport him. I would arrange a plane at Manc airport for deportation back to his own country. He could walk to the airport.

Of course, it would be too bad if word slipped out about what time he was released, wouldn't it?

Aaquil

He has probably be involved in the bombing in Iraq as well as the hostage taking and beheadings. If that is the case he has killed non-Muslims and Muslims alike. He is hated by Muslims and Non Muslims alike (the ones who have any heart, goodness and dignity).

If caught he should be executed asap and anyone else who has been involved in this killings, bombing etc. In the first place innocent Iraqis did not ask to be invaded or bombed so where is the justice in the statements of some people who say in other threads '...just nuke the place...' The Iraqi people and good Muslims hate these people (Zarqawi) with real hatred. This hostage taking, bombing and beheading has to be stopped now and action upon those terrorists is the only way. Diplomacy will not work with the West they hate the West. Even the 'Muslim Council' reps could not help the issue of Kenneth Bigley because Zarkawi is upon the belief that anyone who is not upon what they are upon have left Islaam and are legitimate targets anyway.

Aaquil.

Aaquil

By the way execution for Murderers, paedophiles, rapists is fine by me as the disease is stopped in its tracks not paid for by may taxes in terms of Hotel I mean 'Prison' accomodation...table tennis, menus for dinner, Sky TV, Libraries, training, gyms and **** (If that prisioner considers he has a case in terms of his human rights).

Aaquil.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Hang the basteward

mj

He is a vile misguided sicko, slow head squashing in a vice ala "casino" would be too good for him. Feet first into an industrial meat slicer would be better. If I had the honour, the meat slicer would come just after a severe beating while his large dose of LSD was taking effect, just to help him forget the glory of his death.

Another goodie would be to strap into a big bling bling American car, fill the car full of raw American sewage and leave just his head exposed, then drop the lot into a hydraulic car crusher. All caught on camera of course.

If he was tortured, or died a hideous death then we are down to his level. Just catch him and wish him goodbye with a lethal injection. One less piece of **** in the world.

Who cares what that poor bloke was doing in Bhagdad or wherever, nobody deserves that.

To anyone that thinks he did deserve it, or he got what was coming I suggest you have a look for a clip called rusthroat.

Horrible, and to have it filmed and then put out on the internet is diabolical, but that's technology for you

16vmarc

he should be tortured over a number of years, and patched up each time so he doesnt die. Then when fully healed, or better still nearly healed do something else to him.

moses

he is a sick man i aint into torturing fellow humans but he should be headed like he done this his victims and the man is evil and he kills muslims and non muslims , iraqi sunnis, shia's and anyone basically and turks
he is bad to the bone

i think he wants to be more famous than osama bin laden, he is getting their fast , just as he wanted, they say he wants to be more brutal and he is already famous coz osama doesnt get involved with killing and maiming, this man himself does it, he likes using a sword or a knife to show the western armies , the machines and guns aint the only weapons, medievil weapons will do for brutality

sick f***er

Elmer Fudpucker

I'd like to get a great big long,thick poker.

....heat one end of said poker to red hot.

then insert the poker,cold end first of course,deep into Al-Zarquawis **** passage.

and then fall about laughing as he burnt his hands trying to get it out

mj

knives and swords are ok for a small gathering, to get the best out of them requires the internet, a western invention, now isn't that ironic?.

andrewdelvard

No, instead I'd pass him onto the family of Ken Bigley and let them decide what to do with him.

moses

well said andrew couldnt have said it better


yeah mj its sad these c:unts just want publicity and we give it to them

mj

@andrewdelvard..


did you see the footage of his family on the news out of interest ? , they were all a bit too "untraumatised" IMO, I saw an interview of his brother, very poker faced about the whole thing.

andrewdelvard

Well when my Gran died people thought I didn't care. I was so...level headed about it all it shocked people (and myself )because we'd been so close. I thought I was just somehow dealing with it. Then after about 2 weeks it hit me. I cried and cried. I cried so hard I could hardly breath. I'll always miss her.
I don't know what it was but I think I was just in shock that she'd gone. My mind just couldn't absorb the information. It was just to much.
It's just a guess, I don't (obviously) know his brother or family but they could be going through the same.

mj

Fair play andrew, I suppose people deal with greif in different ways. If it was my old fella or brother that was in Ken Bigley's position I wouldn't have the ***** to go on telly and tell the nation. The clip I saw was his bro annoncing that Ken had been executed, I'll shut up now, Iv'e never been in that position, and hope I never have to.

Iwan

Something like a painless lethal injection would be my choice. I do think the bloke should be executed, but not in the same barbaric and disgusting manner his victims were. just because he's an utterly depraved and barbaric animal, doesn't mean everyone else needs to be.

Aaquil

RESPECT TO YOU mj your reply to Andrewdelvard was very honest and humble. We could all from your example.

Aaquil

I was meant to write we could all learn from your example again respect to you.

mart360

If he had done one of my family , i wouldnt give a toss about the pc or human rights brigade..

I would keep the ****** concious on drugs, and subject him to every known torture available. both mental and physical..

after all the bible does say an eye for an eye. and if i killed him that would be wrong.. and once killed, you have nothing to vent your anger on...

the only hope is that there really is a 'god' and when al zippo gets there he gets told "f*ck off your scum... the pigs need a new plaything", and the guy in basement gets him.

Mart

gsm1

If that were the case, Aaquil, he must one sly operator to be getting away with so much amongst people who supposedly hate him.

Yes, he's a crazy man who would, if he didn't have religion to pervert, probably be involved in other criminality but there are many others in Iraq who even if they don't subscribe to his fanaticism are quite happy to provide cover for him because of what has been done to their loved ones and their country by the coalition forces.

Pbr

Depends how much influence the group he leads can exert over people local to the area in which they operate. People may be terrified of crossing them in much the same way as people in parts of Belfast would never have crossed the IRA in any way. It's clear how brutal they are.

Aaquil

gsm1...

I did not mean it like that I meant and Iraqi with a heart and mind would not support him of course those evil and those blinded by propaganda (Comes from both sides of course) and hatred for the ones who bombed, killed and humiliated their loved ones will support Zarkawi no matter what he does...but if your family members, friends etc. are killed by people who are involved in an illegal invasion you will want revenge but NOT by killing innocents like Kenneth Bigley.

However, on the other side we all are here in the UK and are aware that going to Iraq as a Westerner would be highly, highly risky and a major gamble.

Pbr...

You are probably right...they may be considered as 'turn coats and traitors' will the US and UK forces then protect them?!!!

Aaquil.

yoza

Its not just him who is the extremist murderer...there was a few of them, and there is a whole lot more.

Do you ever think what drives these people, I do, and I will keep my thoughts to myself.

My Son was being born as the Reuters news came up on the TV (actually in the Birthing Unit) that confirmed Kens death, made me think like I have havent thought before, about life and death....all very DEEP, and not like me at all.

Anyway, I digress.

Would I torture him........NO.

To lock him up in the place where I think he would go (forever), would be torture enough.

But then I think to myself, how many more Ken Bigleys would there be, to try and gain his release.

When the time comes he will be judged, and thats the end of it.

gsm1

Aaquil, when the killing starts rationality goes out the window. Who is innocent and who is not doesn't matter. There are people sitting here in the UK, quite comfortably behind their PCs, ready to nuke all Iraqis for the actions of a few who killed people they didn't even know personally. How do you think the Iraqis feel when their loved ones have been slaughtered by coalition cluster bombs, napalm, cruise missiles and bullets?

Let's reverse the situation. If the Iraqis had invaded us and there was an Arab contractor working here for more money in a day than we earned in a year and yet our loved ones who had been killed, tortured or humiliated by Iraqi troops were not given the time of day, would we care if he was innocent or not?

The analogy with NI doesn't wash. Those groups in NI are home grown. This is a guy who has walked into Iraq from another country.

Leslie

I think he should be tried and executed. I feel that he deserves to be put to death in the same way that he murdered those poor men. That of course would be a barbaric thing to do and I could not bring myself to do it personally. Pitiless thugs who behave like that should be eliminated in a comparatively civilised manner. In that way we could not be held up as being no better than him.

Les

Pbr

Yes, but I wasn't comparing the composition or background of the Irish groups with Al-Zarquawi's. I was drawing a parallel with the extreme danger local people put themselves in by crossing terrorist organisations, based on how much influence they have, and how much or how little protection the security forces can provide.