druddle

Hello !

Was travelling off the M3 up the A322 towards Bracknell yesterday lunchtime, and just after the bend under the bridge of the A30 there was a camera van sat there. Its a 50 zone, and I was doing about 62 on my speedo.

I had a look at Pepipoo and UK Speed Traps websites, but can anyone help with a few questions...

Its a company car, so if i have been done, who gets the NIP ? I guess it will go to my company and then to me, so does it have to be with me or the company within 14 days ?
Can i request a copy of the photo or whatever evidence they have ?
Can i request any calibration or operators certificates for any equipment used ?

Thanks in advance

Dave

mannyo

it will be sent to your company within 14 days, they then have 28 days to respond. Then you will recieve a request to identify driver if more than one person has use of the vehicle, or the offense paperwork if you dont.

davegtt

Been done in a company car before, NIP within 2 weeks time will arrive at work if youve been caught

Can i request a copy of the photo or whatever evidence they have ? YES
Can i request any calibration or operators certificates for any equipment used ? YES

only reason I have never requested evidence etc I was worried that it will drag out the NIP and thought that my 28 days to reply will be up and I might end up in court etc etc....

I went though a mobile 1 doing over 80 on the speedo but never heard nothing about a year ago now, lucky I thought but when I looked into it some of the mobile vans are checkers for tax discs not speed??? so u might be OK

Scott W

On the A322 it WILL be a speed camera van. The van is always parked down that piece of road (either in the 50 bit, or the NSL section), and now that the speed limit has dropped to 50 they are having a field day.

druddle

Bugger.

Anyone know what will happen if I have not received the evidence or certificates within 28 days ? Can I be done for it then even though I havent seen the evidence ?

Dave

mono

UK law states that a speedo can not over read, but can under read by 10%
for this reason speed cameras allow 10% for error, you are allowed 10% plus 3 mph on top (not sure what the 3 mph is for, could be camera error)
So in a 50 limit you can do 58mph and as it's unlikely your speedo is spot on, all speedo's over read.
you could have been doing between 56 and 62 mph according to the speedo.
As 58 mph is the lowest speed you could be nicked for and 62 was the fastest you could have been going, i doubt you will hear anything.
I expect the threshold at which you get nicked would be higher than 58mph in a 50 limit anyway.
mono

Petem95

You'd think so, however I know someone who was done doing 42 in a 40 in Plymouth!!

Kiwi

I think the police do not have to show you anything by law, if you go to court I think the CPS have to supply you with any evidence (eg photos) if you request.

De Warrenne

yup, you gotta go to court before they show you anything - which can get a bit scary and makes 3 pts and £60 seem quite generous

vindaloo

I know the road. Thanks for the tip, I didn't realise they were using revenue collectors in the area. Just as well I try and use alternative routes these days.

A colleague has collected a few NIPs for speeding. He's got off two of them after requesting more info. One of them was a front facer which showed him behind the wheel. These aren't portrait photos though. Though you can judge build and approximate colour etc. but as for facial characteristics, forget it.

Worth a quick punt IMO.

J.

hedgehog

Legally you are not entitled to see the evidence against you until 14 days before any court appearance. However, many of the camera partnerships will provide you with the evidence before this, specially if you ask for it "to aid identification of the driver." In saying this there have been many cases of people pleading not guilty, taking their day in court and escaping because the partnership didn't produce the evidence on time.

In theory you have to plead not guilty to see the evidence, a nice little earner for them as many people plead guilty out of fear of the court system. It is possible that a request for the evidence may be complied with within the 28 days, but there is no legal requirement for this.

There have also been a significant number of cases where when the evidence was released and the motorist calculated their speed, using the time/distance method, from the photo that it was discovered they were doing nowhere near the speed claimed by the partnership. One chap recently done for 53 (as I recall, maybe 54) in a 30 knew he was sitting in a traffic jam at the time. When he got the photos and did the calculation his actual speed was 11mph!!

Cameras don't just kill people, they lie.

In general pleading not guilty, going to court and losing will not lead to a substantially increased penalty. The last person I personally know who did this was fined £70 and 3 points with no costs. I have heard of costs being awarded but I never heard of a simple speeding case where these have exceeded £35. With this in mind going to court is certainly an option to consider, the CPS do mess up speeding cases on a regular basis so there is a chance of an favourable result.

I would suggest that you send the letter, published on the pepipoo site, which points out that the NIP is illegal to the Chief Constable who issued the NIP. Do that fast and don't return the NIP for the full 28 days to see if you get a reply. You might find your case is dropped and even if it isn't you are in a good position to join the class action for compensation due to the illegal actions of the CC under EU law. Clearly doing this carries no risk to you and the points stay on your licence for 3 years from the offence so delaying means another month less with points.

Either way there are quite a few measures you can take to defend yourself against the allegations. The most expensive option is to employ a lawyer who specialises in motoring law and who is up to speed with current defence strategy.

Other sites worth a visit is www.abd.org.uk (check that the road signs for the limit are legal here) and www.safespeed.org.uk

Jap2Scrap

Hedgehog..

You do seem to know bucketfulls about this subject and all power to you but can I ask 2 quick questions?

You got any points mate?
Have you ever successfully used the advice you give to get off a fine/points?

I'm not suggesting you don't know what you're talking about because everything you say checks out 100%, I'm just intrigued as to whether you've ever needed to use it yourself.

Regards

Ray

hedgehog

This is a good questions with a long answer :-)

I have no points on my license but can explain why I started to take a passing interest in such matters, I certainly can't claim to be an expert.

Some time back, about 1995 or 1996 I was stopped by police for "speeding." The 2 police officers involved lied about the speed at which I was travelling, by some considerable margin. The case went to court but at that time I knew nothing about the process and, as I was alone in the car, believed I had no option but to plead guilty. As a result there was no need to call the police officers involved to court and so a police inspector was present in court to read the statements of the officers involved, he did the same for all the other cases appearing that morning.

The officer in court read bare minimum of information from the statement to the court. Now, I had never even been in a court before and so had no idea what was going on. However, at this point the magistrate asked me if I would mind waiting a few moments before making any comments in my defence, I had no representation. At this point the magistrate turned to the police officer, in front of the whole court, and expressed the view that in light of the evidence in my case and others he had seen come before him he, basically, thought that something strange was going on and that it was a matter the inspector should address with some urgency.

Now at the time, first time in court with no idea what was going on and head spinning etc. it never occured to me that the magistrate had just informed the police officer that he believed the officers were telling lies. It wasn't until I thought about it afterwards that I realised that the magistrate had seen a pattern over a number of cases he had dealt with.

I was the lucky one as it was on my case that he spotted the pattern. Now, I live in Northern Ireland and at the time of this event there was no points system in NI, though there were all manner of endorsments that could be applied. However, despite the speed at which I was said to be travelling I was fined £100 and sent home. As I had seen fit to plead guilty I guess the magistrate couldn't just throw it out.

As you might imagine I discussed my case with friends and colleagues and it came as a surprise to me just how many horror stories I heard about police behaviour in relation to alleged traffic offences. As a result of this I started taking a passing interest in such things so that, if nothing else, I would be better informed the next time.

I also have concerns, unrelated to the incident above, about the victimisation of motorists and the desire of the administration to gain control over our movements. I think that current plans for Intelligent Speed Adaptation, number plate tags, constant GPS tracking and so on are extremely frightening indeed and every member of society should be concerned about them as once the motorists are "tagged" it will be some other group next.

Jap2Scrap

Thanks for answering hedgehog

Took me awhile to find this thread again, there are so many 'speed camera' related threads I was starting to wonder if I'd imagined asking the question, lol. Eventually I remembered the 'search all threads by this user' function and checked my own threads.

I know what you're saying about the police, they're only humans doing a job and a lot of people can be accused of embellishment to make them look good at work. No reason why the old bill should be any different.

I do have one good example of the traffic cops being fair though; I was pulled on the M27 a few years ago, I was racing a Volvo, can't remember the model name now, the wedge shaped one with pop-up lights rather like a civic crx of the same era. Anyway, we were both tanking it, well over a ton (the motorway was almost empty as it was about 12.30am) when I saw the reflective strip on a bridge overhead. I thought "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!" and slowed down to 65 in the inside lane but the volvo raced off.. I was still wondering if I'd done the right thing when the lights spun up behind me.

I was shown the evidence in their car, 118.6mph, not bad in a 4 speed cortina (was running a 2.1 RS rally engine mind).. I began to protest that the volvo must have been going about the same when their radio crackled and I clearly heard that a traffic car further along the motorway was ready to pull him.

Then I got the biggest shock, bearing in mind I was doing nearly 120mph, the officer said that as I'd shown enough respect to slow when I saw the police car and not speed off like the volvo he'd book me for sp70, i.e. in excess of 70mph and not reckless driving, etc. which the volvo driver would certainly be charged with.

Retrospectively I suppose I could have queried the evidence, which car was that speed actually showing, all that sorta stuff, but to be honest I WAS speeding, by a lot, and I considered myself the luckiest sod going.

So big thanks to the police for being decent, and bigger thanks to the volvo driver for being a daft ****

In contrary to that, I once had an alternator failure in the same car late at night resulting in a breakdown.. The police passed by and then came back to see why I was stood waiting by the car in the middle of the night. Unsatisfied with my answer that I was waiting for my dad who I'd called from a phone box they proceded to make me empty the entire car, including boot carpets, rear seat base, the works. My dad turned up just after they left and couldn't believe it, I was only 18 and alone, and a scrawny kid They'd jumped in their patrol car and sped off leaving me to rebuild a cortina in the dark.. Gits..