paulr

Used mine for the first time today,but as i punched in **** the guy on the till was looking.If he gets my pin will that compromise my security?

ScoobyDriverWannabe

Iv got one but never used it my self yet. They sent me the new card but with barely and instructions. Is the pin i use to get cash of the cash point the same pin i use when buying stuff on the card ??.

StickyMicky

i used one and couldnt rember my pin

it totally threw me off when the keys were in a diffrent place

dharbige

The PIN is only any use if you have the card aswell. You can change your PIN at a cash point if you're worried about it.

Yes. So long as it's the same card.

djuk

I use chip and pin with my debit card and I have always wondered, ever since the idea was first put out there, just exactly how the entering of a 4 digit pin number (not the longest string of numbers in the world to remember) is harder for Mr Card Thief standing behind me in the queue to copy than my personal signature.

Before even if someone were to remove the card from me, they would have a major problem getting the signature to resemble the one on the card for use in shops. Now it seems someone would just need to stand behind you in the line at the checkout, remember the 4 digit pin, follow you outside, take the card from you and be away.

Maybe I am missing something really obvious but the whole scheme to me seems a tad daft

David

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

daft thing is...you don't actually need to use the pin for the card to work, most credit card machines have the facilty to bypass the PIN entry.

Defeats the point if you ask me

douglasb

djuk - How often does the person at the checkout really check the signature? I used to have a card where the signature was almost completely worn off and I only once was questioned about it. If someone stole that card they'd have had a pretty good chance of being able to use it with almost any signature. With the PIN they've got a one in ten thousand chance of guessing the number, so its a bit more secure.

dharbige

This is why you should always be careful when entering your PIN number to ensure nobody can see. The pin pads appearing in shops should all have at least a small privacy shield, and you can always use your other hand to shield it even more.
The chip is there to prevent card-not-present fraud, and to prevent cloning. If a non-chip transaction is attempted from a chip-capable terminal, the card issuer knows to decline it, and the chip itself is very difficult to clone.

Most signatures are not that difficult to copy sufficiently well to copy, especially as the people who 'check' them most often don't bother.

mervil

iTrader: (5)

When i got my new Capital one Credit Card it didnt come with a PIN straight away so i had to sign the receipt in a shop near me, i'm surprised i got away with it really as i hadn't even signed the bloody thing myself!

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

I have just had mine but it's not active for a couple of weeks yet.... personally I don't understand why we have not got our picture incorporated into the card, this would be a double security measure.

Aaquil

Picture would defo be a good idea...I've used the pin system caught me well off guard first time.

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

The only reason I can think that they will not use pictures are these
"civil liberty" types moaning about it ..... at least if cards were then produced by criminals they would also need to incorporate the fraudsters picture into it also.

paulr

I've used it about 5 times,only once using the PIN.Most places dont have the technology.

I can see the adv of using a PIN,i guess i'll just have to sheild it when i enter it in future,the thing is its like saying to the shop assistant...."sorry do you mind looking away as i dont trust you".

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I've been using a PIN type card in France for some time now, and every PIN reader I use has a privacy shield around three sides, and/or is on a flying lead so you can place it so no-one can see it as you use it.

Typically, British ones have none: As usual, not only are we behind in the technology, but we go about it half-arsed

How long before the thieves realise this?

And I'd stake my pension it's a money saving thing in the UK, not to have them

Alcazar

paulr

Totally agree mate,kind of reminds me when i had to use a loo on a train station in Belgium,was amazed to see they have partitions which ACTUALLY offer you real privacy,not like those silly things we have in the UK.

P1Fanatic

The thing that gets my goat is that before mr thief could nick your card and use it to buy stuff by copying your signature. Now he can do this but can easily get your pin no and withdraw cash on your card as well.

I honestly do not see the benefit. Unless your saying that if I order online or over phone they wont accept my card without the pin no (if its a chip & pin card). But then mr thief will probably have your pin anyway after watching you type it in.

Simon.

dba

the bypass facility is only there in the short term until most retailers have the machines and everyone has the cards

pbee

ive used this for a while now, it has been used in frnace and holland for years, Last time i was in a Paris restaraunt, the waiter was very suprised my card reuired a signature, they use this little consoles that they bring to the table, so your card doesnt leave your eye sight.

Card fraud was reduced by 60% in France after they introduced chip and pin, and the northampton trial here showed similiar results.

SO hopefully it does work as the consumer pays for these frauds in the end. There are other options but then you have to way up costs and complexity against the fraud.

If a retailer bypasses the pin they are then responsible if it is a fraudulant transaction not the credit card company, will not be to much longer before they stop overriding the pins.

dharbige

So be careful when entering your PIN!

NO NO NO!!!! NEVER tell your PIN number to ANYBODY!! Even your bank! Only enter it at a payment terminal or cash machine.
Telephone/mail order/internet transactions will be "Card Not Present" transactions, which are riskier for the merchant, but they can still choose to do it if they want.

They will do. All of them. Chip & PIN becomes mandatory in the UK on Jan 1st 2005. After that, any merchant who does not support it automatically assumes responsibility for any fraudulent transactions that could have been prevented by supporting chip.

boomer

So how can i tell whether or not the "keypad" is some dummy "skimming" device to record my PIN as "plain text" whether or not the shop/waiter sees what i type?

mb

Tiggs

u cant please some people!

if i loose my current card ANYONE that finds it can spend 30 secs learning the signature before its good enough to fob off some idiot behind the till.


with chip and pin the only person who can get/use my card has to be stood behind me in the que, see my pin then pick my pocket!

chip and pin is superb and easy. (unless your a moron and cant type in 4 numbers without letting the world see (its worked as cash points for years now)

paulr

Obviously then Tiggs i'm a moron.

The situation was the pin machine was on a very small till,there was no sheilding device and the assistant was stood directly in front of me.There was nowhere to go.My only choice would have been to take some of the advertising plaquards from his window dislpay and build a mini privacy booth (like they have at elections) but that may have been a bit extreme.
I guess i could have used my hand.

Tiggs

there you go! you're not a moron.....you just forgot about your spare hand

Freak

Having used this system in france, there is a little flap you can pull down over your hand to sheild it.
Works well
The uk ones are sh!te and poorly planned/made/positioned

MooseRacer

I can't help but wonder if 'chip and pin' was motivated more by card companies wanting to reduce their processing costs, than by any desire to reduce fraud.

Tiggs

so what if it was? they are in business to make money.....if i was them and this was a cheaper option i put it in place.........are you saying you think the pin is LESS secure than your signature?

boomer

The thing is that 99% of Joe Public are going to use exactly the same PIN on their CaP as found on their ATM card. You know, that card that still has a magnetic stripe so that it is compatible with all the other ATM machines.

Maybe the credit card companies will improve security (reduce overheads ) in the short term, but the banks will end up with mopping up the hidden costs!

Oh, and isn't it interesting how the trial was conducted in, er, Northampton. ISTR that there is a major criedit card company based there, and thus probably a lot of CC company employees - you couldn't pick a better "representative sample" to ensure that you get your own way

mb

paulr

There's nothing wrong with trying to reduce overheads.
What it will reduce is fraud from stolen cards and that must be a good thing.

MooseRacer

"They are in business to make money" - no, really?
I'd say they are no more secure for the average punter who takes care of their cards.

Brendan Hughes

I used the system in Belgium in 1994 (that's TEN YEARS AGO) and in Portugal since I arrived (almost FOUR YEARS AGO).

You'd have thought that if it increased card fraud, the companies might have had second thoughts by this time?

You Brits really are narrow-minded sometimes.

FFS, what's the difference? Surely it's far easier to pick someone's pocket discreetly and imitate the signature, than it is to lean over their shoulder and memorise a code BEFORE following them and picking their pocket/mugging them?