Breaking News: Russian School Stormed
03 September 2004, 11:33 AM
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Breaking News: Russian School Stormed
On Sky news now. Russian special forces have stormed the school where 100's of children were being held.
Horrific scenes on TV now, chaos and kids being stretchered off. Seems like the storming has failed or at least partially failed.
Horrific scenes on TV now, chaos and kids being stretchered off. Seems like the storming has failed or at least partially failed.
03 September 2004, 11:40 AM
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I agree, pictures have been horrific. There seems to be some lack of organisation, nobdoy seems to know how many children there are, whether there are any left inside, whether the gunmen (and women) have taken children with them, and it seems like nobody knows who is in charge.
The pictures are quite disturbing.
The pictures are quite disturbing.
03 September 2004, 11:53 AM
#4
more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3624024.stm
I suppose if this quote is true- "They took some of the injured out of the gym and finished them off right there in the corridor," then there wasnt much else they could do.
Steve
I suppose if this quote is true- "They took some of the injured out of the gym and finished them off right there in the corridor," then there wasnt much else they could do.
Steve
03 September 2004, 12:01 PM
#5
It was never going to end peacefully . Storming the building was probably the only way to limit the casualties. I don't think the Chechens did their cause a whole heap of good today.
Suresh
. Storming the building was probably the only way to limit the casualties. I don't think the Chechens did their cause a whole heap of good today.Suresh
03 September 2004, 12:04 PM
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Kids that ran away were fired upon and many have been killed reportedly Its a total disgrace by the Russian officials in how they have dealt with this, just like they fcuked up the theatre siege and poisoned a over 100 people with gas
Typical that the Government and Putin this morning say it will be ended peacefully and then the next thing the special forces have stormed the place. Total disorganisation that results in children being killed
And once again who is to blame for this outrage? Muslims! ******* Muslims of Chechnya wanting their independant state
Muslims say they are a peaceful religion and people but then its always Muslims who are on the news having blown up this or that or taken people hostage. Don't see Sihks, Buddists, Christians on telly killing people or blowing things up do you - its always Islamic nutters
Sorry Moses but there is no denying Islam breeds fanatics and murderers all in the name of religion and its time the World leaders took a stance on it
Its a total disgrace by the Russian officials in how they have dealt with this, just like they fcuked up the theatre siege and poisoned a over 100 people with gas Typical that the Government and Putin this morning say it will be ended peacefully and then the next thing the special forces have stormed the place. Total disorganisation that results in children being killed
And once again who is to blame for this outrage? Muslims! ******* Muslims of Chechnya wanting their independant state
Muslims say they are a peaceful religion and people but then its always Muslims who are on the news having blown up this or that or taken people hostage. Don't see Sihks, Buddists, Christians on telly killing people or blowing things up do you - its always Islamic nutters Sorry Moses but there is no denying Islam breeds fanatics and murderers all in the name of religion and its time the World leaders took a stance on it
03 September 2004, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Suresh
It was never going to end peacefully . Storming the building was probably the only way to limit the casualties. I don't think the Chechens did their cause a whole heap of good today.
Suresh
. Storming the building was probably the only way to limit the casualties. I don't think the Chechens did their cause a whole heap of good today.Suresh
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03 September 2004, 12:15 PM
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10 confirmed dead, more to follow for certain. What a shambles
BTW the media are only reporting on a certain section of what goes in the news. There are atrocities going on all over the world, not all of it relgious based. Some of it is tribal, some of money, some over honour and some for none at all.
BTW the media are only reporting on a certain section of what goes in the news. There are atrocities going on all over the world, not all of it relgious based. Some of it is tribal, some of money, some over honour and some for none at all.
03 September 2004, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
Don't see Sihks, Buddists, Christians on telly killing people or blowing things up do you
No Israeli rocket attacks and bulldozing of Palestinian homes?
Trial of Slobodan Milosevic (Christian) for war crimes and crimes against humanity?
It's all there if you look, I'm afraid.
The difference seems to be, it's Moslem individuals who perpetrate such crimes - when it comes to other religions, they let the state do it. Is that better, or worse?Not a dig at you personally mate, but trying to put the bigger picture.
Sevodnya uzhastnie den. Today is horrible.
Last edited by Brendan Hughes; 03 September 2004 at 12:39 PM.
03 September 2004, 12:48 PM
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Should have sent the SAS in they would have done the job properly!
I used to think the Spetznaz were the best but obviously that was in the days of the cold war. When I was in the Army in the late 80's the very word Spetznaz used to send a shiver down your spine.
I used to think the Spetznaz were the best but obviously that was in the days of the cold war. When I was in the Army in the late 80's the very word Spetznaz used to send a shiver down your spine.
03 September 2004, 01:01 PM
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Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan mate was a legitimate act of war not a terrorist excercise in my book - down to personal opinion I guess. Israel and Palestine is an unconventional war that will never end. The Israelis don't go into Palestinian shopping malls and blow up innocent shoppers, they send tanks/choppers into terrorist bases to kill the organisers of suicide bombers. 50/50 blame as a viscious circle neither wants to break. I'll give you the Milosevic one though but its hardly as common as seeing Musilms on telly every week killing people and taking hostages all the time.
Don't forget the Chechens are also heavily backed by Al Quaeda in their push for independence so well funded and well provisioned in arms and terrorist tactics. Chechnya will just turn into the Afghanistan of old if they get independence, its Al Quaeda trying to get themselves a new home. There is practically nothing left of Chechnya after 10 years of fiece fighting, time to get the women and children/innocent civilians out and flatten the place!
Don't forget the Chechens are also heavily backed by Al Quaeda in their push for independence so well funded and well provisioned in arms and terrorist tactics. Chechnya will just turn into the Afghanistan of old if they get independence, its Al Quaeda trying to get themselves a new home. There is practically nothing left of Chechnya after 10 years of fiece fighting, time to get the women and children/innocent civilians out and flatten the place!
03 September 2004, 01:03 PM
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Watching the greatest SAS missions on Weds nights on Ch 5. They've done and been through some right ****, but last weeks was the storming the embassy program. What a superbly executed maneouver, they are a force to be reckoned with for sure!
03 September 2004, 01:05 PM
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Wurzel I think the Polish were having a bit of a dig at the Russian special forces too. The Polish Defence Secretary said the Russians didn't do the job properly if the operation took so long. Now proved by the fact a large number of the terrorists have escaped into the town 
Think the Polish have one of the best special forces in the World now and would have done a far better job than the Russians so they wanted to get a dig in at the Russians.
Think the Polish have one of the best special forces in the World now and would have done a far better job than the Russians so they wanted to get a dig in at the Russians.
03 September 2004, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
Should have sent the SAS in they would have done the job properly!
I used to think the Spetznaz were the best but obviously that was in the days of the cold war. When I was in the Army in the late 80's the very word Spetznaz used to send a shiver down your spine.
I used to think the Spetznaz were the best but obviously that was in the days of the cold war. When I was in the Army in the late 80's the very word Spetznaz used to send a shiver down your spine.
Given the circumstances, and seemingly total lack of information on just how many hostages were inside and their condition, I very much doubt the SAS, or indeed any other SF unit would have done any better, however I would have thought it could have been contained a little better.
The Iranian Embassy siege wasn't rigged with trip mines, suicide bombers strapped up with explosives and other deadly hazards and was reported to have been a well researched operation prior to the storming, including days worth of surveillance. It would appear that the Russian School siege simply didnt provide enough time to conduct the necessary surveillance, due to the threat of a mass execution.
I feel very sad for the poor children involved - God only knows the effect this sort of thing will have on the survivors.
Neil
03 September 2004, 01:21 PM
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Officials say 250 hostages wounded, including 180 children
03 September 2004, 01:30 PM
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Now being reported a mass execution had been threatened which is why the school was stormed. Whether thats true we wont know I guess as the Russians are always 'difficult' with the truth. Would be a good way to cover their backs for taking action but at the same time anyone who takes children hostage are more than capable of executing them so who knows. Still can't belive they amanaged to let the captors escape though They need capturing alive and giving to the parents of the dead children
They need capturing alive and giving to the parents of the dead children
03 September 2004, 01:43 PM
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There was no way for the siege to end easily. Bear in mind that food and water was being refused, so the kids were going to start to suffer seriously very soon, and the fact that the Chechens have never exactly showed a willingness to negotiate ... this was a (tragic) inevitability.
As to whether the Russian troops did a good job? Doesn't seem so at present, but we'll have to see what the trus casualty figues are one it's all over. If, as reported, there were in excess of 1000 hostages, then 100 dead, though awful, might well be considered to be a reasonable enough survival rate. It would never be a 100% survival rate, not with that many hostages and so many gunmen.
As to whether the Russian troops did a good job? Doesn't seem so at present, but we'll have to see what the trus casualty figues are one it's all over. If, as reported, there were in excess of 1000 hostages, then 100 dead, though awful, might well be considered to be a reasonable enough survival rate. It would never be a 100% survival rate, not with that many hostages and so many gunmen.
03 September 2004, 02:40 PM
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ANother PR disaster for the Jihad.
When will the rest of the Muslim world make a decent attempt at stopping what is happening? Watched the news Wednesday night - Sadr and co. hiding behind Islam, School hostages, planes blown up, French reporters getting kidnapped (and France is well known for its stance against the war in Iraq, and the Palestinian cause) you name it, these illiterate ****** are hiding behind their phoney "Jihad". Where are the moderate voices of the Jordanian/Egyptian/Lebanese Muslims? Look at how the French have handled the head scarf issue (the head scarf being a fairly recent fashion for Muslim women) - they put the law of the land first (which is very Islamic)
And what's all this Martyr stuff? - the remaining "freedom fighters" scarpered out of the school once they'd slain a few toddlers. So they don't get to see Allah now then as they bottled it?
Shooting children eh?
All facist muslims are free to come round and have a pop if they fancy it.
When will the rest of the Muslim world make a decent attempt at stopping what is happening? Watched the news Wednesday night - Sadr and co. hiding behind Islam, School hostages, planes blown up, French reporters getting kidnapped (and France is well known for its stance against the war in Iraq, and the Palestinian cause) you name it, these illiterate ****** are hiding behind their phoney "Jihad". Where are the moderate voices of the Jordanian/Egyptian/Lebanese Muslims? Look at how the French have handled the head scarf issue (the head scarf being a fairly recent fashion for Muslim women) - they put the law of the land first (which is very Islamic)
And what's all this Martyr stuff? - the remaining "freedom fighters" scarpered out of the school once they'd slain a few toddlers. So they don't get to see Allah now then as they bottled it?
Shooting children eh?
All facist muslims are free to come round and have a pop if they fancy it.
03 September 2004, 02:53 PM
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When will the rest of the Muslim world make a decent attempt at stopping what is happening?
03 September 2004, 04:55 PM
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Sounds like the parents managed to get justice on one of the evil ******* at least
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...212125,00.html
Shame they didn't get more!
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...212125,00.html
Shame they didn't get more!
03 September 2004, 05:25 PM
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The russian army forces didn't look very sorted out or commanded! They were running about the place without any armour or helmets at one point!!
Different story if that happened over here (god forbid)...our troops would have holes in there boots and jammed guns!
Na, it would be a 'SAS' operation who would leave no feckin 'Jihad' extremist behind...
Different story if that happened over here (god forbid)...our troops would have holes in there boots and jammed guns!
Na, it would be a 'SAS' operation who would leave no feckin 'Jihad' extremist behind
...
03 September 2004, 05:34 PM
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If it happened in this country there would probably be some politically correct lawyer preventing any attack on the hostage takers on the grounds that it would infringe their human rights.
UB
UB
03 September 2004, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebuck
If it happened in this country there would probably be some politically correct lawyer preventing any attack on the hostage takers on the grounds that it would infringe their human rights.
UB
UB
I was not a fan of Thatcher - pretty much as far opposite as you can imagine - but her deployment of the SAS has saved many lives since, more because of their total precision than due to their undoubted ruthlessness.
And although I'm aware you don't like Tony Blair, he was quite willing to take us to war, and wouldn't shrink from ensuring terrorists in the UK were fully dealt with.
Afterwards, yes, you'd probably have some celeb lawyers trying to argue about human rights, but as in the case of the Belgrano, the vast majority of the population would recognise that it was a pretty repellent thing to do, but one which needed doing.
03 September 2004, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
The IRA needed taking out in Gibralter, didn't stop the SAS members getting fcuked over for doing it so no this country isn't so great at protecting its military forces doing their jobs!
Although there was media criticism of the SAS for unlawful killings, the inquest cleared the regiment, so it's not entirely fair to say that they got screwed over.
03 September 2004, 06:04 PM
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I agree with what you've said but the bad press they got was disgraceful, I don't care how they kill terrorists whether armed or not, they are terrorists ffs and need killing. The way they were made out to be the baddies and the terrorists poor innocents was beyond belief by the British press With what the IRA have done there should not have been one Brit to have raised an eyebrow to how those scum were killed in Gibralter.
With what the IRA have done there should not have been one Brit to have raised an eyebrow to how those scum were killed in Gibralter.