Olly

Just returned from 3 weeks working in Spain, and in all honesty feeling a little embarrased to be British.

Seems like most Spaniards can communicate in some way in English, yet we couldn't even ask for a coffee or a beer.

It made it worse by being accompanied by our "guide", a 25 year old French lad who is totally fluent in English, German and Spanish, yet only 3 years ago couldn't speak a word of English. Now he even has a Manchester accent.

Now I'm gonna be spending more and more time in Spain in the future, and would like to get my finger out of my **** and make the effort to at least be able to communicate in some way. But where the hell do you start?

Any advice?

eClaire

I started a thread a while back on this

I have all my enrollment [sp] papers here ready to fill out for my local college. I am doing a years beginners course on open learning (afterwhich I can take higher spanish if i want) which is costing me £69.50! Quite cheap and I can do it in my own time!!

Edited to say: Colleges are taking applicants for next term now!! get your finger out your bum!!

douglasb

Two choices. One is to do evening classes (but that may not be quick enough for what you need). Other option is to get CDs that you can listen to in the car (or anywhere else). Linguaphone used to be the big ones for this.

A mate has recently moved to France and did the CD route to learning French. Seems to have worked.

I know what you mean though about Europeans' command of other languages. I work for a Dutch company and all the guys that I talk to learn English, French and German in primary school.

imlach

I always think though that us Brits are at a disadvantage when it comes to learning a language at school....

Engish is the obvious choice for non-english speakers as it the most widely used language in the western world for business etc, but what is the obvious choice for native english speakers? French? German? Spanish?

I guess one could argue that learning another language is the stepping stone to learning multiple languages as & when required.....

Chris L

English is also the international language of shipping, air traffic control (and therefore all airlines), the legal system etc etc. This does make us lazy (although one good thing - it winds the French up big time, as they continually want to make French the international language of choice, but no one listens to them ) and as imlach says - leaves us in a position of some confusion.

Our biggest problem is that we simply do not start teaching foreign languages at a young enough age. If the same importance was placed on learning a second language as maths and English, then kids would start at primary school. This has started to change (I've seen my 7 year old niece come on in leaps and bounds with French and German), but we still don't see it as necessary.

Goto any school in mainland Europe and they all know the importance of speaking a second language (normally English) - it opens up all kinds of opportunities and is absolutely essential in business.

As regards the options of learning a language, I've always fancied doing the self learning Linguaphone type course.

Chris

Jerome

A point to note about learning a second language is that you need to practice it regularly or you will eventually lose it. At the very least you will not stay very fluent if you don't keep using it.

I've known of people that have lost their mother tongue because they haven't spoken it for so long. My boss has lost most of 2 languages (Cantonese & Farsi) because he hardly ever uses them. He still has 3 languages to fall back on though...

SomeDude

Serious tip... "Spanish for Dummies". Excellent read. More than just "words" and "where is ze loo", gives a bit of info on the differences of the language around the world.

The other tip would be "start at age 3" but I suppose that's not very useful

davegtt

just got back from italy and again noticed how 95% of people all spoke english yet we couldnt say a word of italian, same where ever Ive been for work and as pointed out, why do we ned to learn another language if they speak english? I know its a lazy way of thinking about it but tbh as said before which language should we speak? only spanish sounds interesting as thats where alot of brits go on their hols but again its all english speaking out there

Chris L

Also consider Dave that many mainland European countries speak English as their second language. It is no easier for a German to communicate with an Italian than it is for us to speak to a Dutchmen. The common second language is therefore English which makes it easier for everyone to communicate. It is easier for them to all have a common second language instead of having to learn 3 or 4 other major European languages (ever tried Dutch? Then you'll see why most choose English )Because of this, most Europeans will be speaking English on an almost daily basis - this means they get plenty of practise - which as Jerome says is vitally important.

Consider my own circumstances. I work for an Anglo / French / Dutch company with offices in just about every country in Europe (in fact we have offices in over 200 territories across the globe). We have joint head offices in London, Paris and Amsterdam. Our chief exec is French, but the majority of the board are American & English. So which language should I learn? I do feel as if I should do something, but the fact remains that the language it makes most sense to know is English (kind of convienent I know ).

Chris

bigsinky

french, great language for swearing in, but you gotta be very fluent or a native to do swearing any justice. just look at the frenchman in the 2nd matrix film. great bit were his wife betrays him and he starts to swear in french. laffed me ballix off at that.

cheers

sinky

davegtt

Chris,wouldnt even wanna think about dutch, its split 50/50 anyway over there isnt it? flemish and all that bo11ocks

yoza

Depending on what shift I work, there is an opportunity to wear personal sterio CD players.

A couple of the lads go to the library (main city centre libraries) and loan the CD's mentioned earlier, Teach Youself Spanish or whatever.

They look and sound a bit odd repeating and gesturing to themselves, but when working an 8 hour shift on a machine away from anyone else, you tend to pick it up pretty quick.

Maybe you also have time to listen to a CD, this coupled with a night class should see you through.

Im thinking of learning English by the same method.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

I learnt conversational Greek by listening to tapes before I went off island hopping way back in my misspent youth, (don't think cd's had been invented then ) then I went to evening classes to learn it properly and boy, was it hard! The conversational stuff was great for asking for rooms/beers/food etc and it got me used to the language before starting on the really hard course which I subsequently gave up on

I also brushed up my O-level French by using a basic conversational tape learning system, I had started off using Linguaphone which was really useful if I needed to tell someone in French that the record player was on the table but no so good for ordering a beer/room/food etc

stevencotton

Another reason for most non-English speaking countries is they're bombarded with crap American TV just as much as we are, so they get to hear a lot of English too. This makes a huge difference, I learnt Danish and Norwegian from ex girlfriends, books and tapes, but only when I was living there and immersed in the language did I make huge leaps forward towards fluency, but you will lose it in time if you don't practice

Chris L

Good point about television Steve!

SomeDude

TV plays a big role indeed, as does... pop music.

I knew some English before I was 5 year old, watching series like Mannix etc...

Mind you: in a lot of countries you get overdubs (Germany, France, Spain...) whereas we always get the original version with subtitles. It's fun watching Fawlty Towers in Spanish (where Manuel is no longer from Barcelona but from Milano LOL)

Dave, Dutch is spoken in The Netherlands and Belgian Flanders, French in Belgian Wallonia.

In Belgium, for Flemish people, the second language is French (as you can imagine, Brussels being bi-lingual), English is only the 3rd language. Most Dutch people learn German first, then English (although with younger people this trend might be changing, not sure).

I speak Dutch, French, English and German, and know a bit of Italian and Spanish. The funny thing is I feel just as "inadequate" when I'm in Spain and can't properly speak to them in their native language. It makes me feel like a barbarian.

English in Spain will be rather good in the touristic areas, but for example in our Madrid headoffice, there are quite a few people who don't speak a word of English.

The French government actually fights against English in the media, they have a rule that a fixed percentage of productions broadcasted should be in French. Personally I don't think that's a good thing, as it's not that you forget your own culture when you learn/watch English spoken productions.

Oh yeah, and French indeed is an excellent language for swearing

gavnnik

There are a great many people in Spain who don't speak Spanish either.

Try telling a Catalan that their language is Spanish as see what reaction you get

chiark

Ahhh, the Merovingian in the Matrix...

Google for it, you'll find it. Er, is it something about a duck?

And yes, I laughed out loud when I first watched that bit - I did AS-level French (A-level without the writing and literature, basically) and we had a very liberal teacher. It *is* like wiping your *** on silk, especially if you can do it with a smile on your face... Please, no translations

Back on track: the CDs are fairly good for a quick fix shot, but you don't get to practice interaction, which can mean you pick up some pretty shocking habits in the language. See if there's any fairly fluent speakers in your office/wherever that can help you, or the evening classes are a good idea providing you get material to work with, as a couple of hours one day a week is going to make things slow... However, listening to articles, tuning into a language and doing the old "ecoutez, et repetez" really helps to get your tongue round things (so to speak).

Try to find internet radio stations in the language, and just listen, absorb and let it wash over you. Once you've got the basics, that's surprisingly helpful and you'll find yourself using phrases later on that have obviously not been taught in a class, but are absolutely the right construction.

I really want to pick up my French again, as it's been 12 years since that AS-level... I find it frankly astonishing that I had a 15 minute conversation with a native French speaker about the state of the environment, particularly with reference to the French penchant for nuclear power, and enjoyed it. Ended up with an "A", too, which was a lot more use than General Studies which is what I'd have done if I hadn't taken the French option!

IMHO, French stands you in good stead for moving on to learn Spanish, and Italian and other latin-based languages. Pick up German too, and you've got a fair few bases covered.

Diesel

They key thing you receive when you make an effort to speak the local lingo is a healthy dose of respect – you are elevated from dumb ignorant foreigner to a much higher being! This leads to more fun, more interaction and better prices! It can also open up whole continents - you will not get away exploring Lat Am or Cuba without some Spanish for example. However you will be fine in Benidorm – if that’s your bag

I would suggest that any instruction ideally must be via a native speaker teacher, face to face. I just cant see how CD’s would be that effective. A teacher will correct you, advise on pronunciation (always difficult for English monoglots as English is so ODD!), get you to think harder and converse. You can also ask awkward questions about why the grammar doesn’t make any sense at all It also avoids the self motivation hurdle.

Finally I do not know why we let the continentals have such a huge advantage over us by simply teaching their kids foreign languages in primary schools? Children’s minds are sponges for languages and it is such a piece of cake for them – its tougher doing it as an adult (although no less possible)!

D

PS my top learning tip is listening to the lyrics in songs; you will find that you learn the words quickly but have no idea what they mean! So, you then look in the dictionary and find that 'grafiokratia' means 'bureaucracy' in Greek; VERY useful (if quite a bad song )

Chris L

Chiark - it is very funny when you put it through an online translator

bloke

A lot of people find michel thomas very good.

eClaire

Take a wee look here Might prove useful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/learning/library/languages.shtml

chiark

Claire, that's excellent, and there's some great links on there

Mitchy260

Uno,dos tres,quatro, cinco,seis,sietti,ocho,nueve,diez,..........1-10
como te llamas...........what is your name....me llamo........my name is
por favor....please.........gracias.......Thank you....Hola.....Hello
Si...Yes...No...no....... Que....what
Cerveza...beer

Dos cervezas por favor......2 beers please!!! On reciept of beers.....Gracias!!!

What else do you need to know LOL!!!

There's a start for you mate, basic, very basic spanish.

Claudius

chiark

Er, with hindsight, I have edited the original post . The moderators would quite rightly edit the snot out of that if it were in English.

My apologies if anyone was offended, but I blame the matrix fairly and squarely

Back on topic now.

Jerome

Funnily enough I was drinking with a bloke on Sunday who taught me that phrase. Will come in handy if anyone can ever persuade me to venture into Quebec.

beemerboy

i find doing a foreign bird helps the language no end...

cheaper then linguaphone stuff too.

BB

Jerome

You must have met some real slappers abroad if they were that cheap!