eClaire

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knows much about these. I have researched on the web but have obviously been looking in the wrong places (although I did find the CITB website).

What I am looking for is pay, how long it takes, where to find one, anyone done one before, and if so what have you done and has it paid off?

I am looking at qualifying as something with scope to setting up in business (thats what i do best )

I am particularly interested in plumbing. I know it's odd for a female - please don't slate me as I have already had it from my own grandparents (no, they really did go ape when I told them I was interested ). At 21 I am trying to find something worth doing because I know I am worth more than what I am doing already!! (And hate sitting behind a desk all day)

TIA

C

Manda_po

Good luck Claire.

eClaire

Fanks Manda

Adrian F

I don't know much about plumbing but for electrical trades the apprentiship is normaly 3 years then you would need about 5-10 years on the tools and a lot of luck to set up on your own and not actually have to be on site on the tools most days. the Trades are full of small businesses and most of these are people who work on the tools every day and get work subed from the bigger companies or work direct to the public. going from this size to being able to being offfice based is difficult as most people are trying to do this as well and the clients with enough work to enable you to do this want bigger firms who are already established. also at the moment construction is in the boom phase in 5-10 years it could be in its bust part of the cycle andprofits and pay correspondingly low.

for details on some rates for electricians look at http://www.jib.org obviously being a women in the trades would be a big advantage as you would stand out and attract attention which you could turn to buisness. equally it will be difficult to get thru the first few months as the apprentices are normally 16 boys and on my course 5 women started only 1 made it the 5 years i did the rest gave up under the barrage of micky taking and the reality of leaving home 7am getting back 7pm and getting all the sh*t jobs on site.

Good luck

logiclee

Although we run our own Electrical and Mechanical apprenticeships we do it under the new government backed "Modern" schemes.

We have set on lads between 16 and 25 in the last few years. The apprenticeship takes 4 years to complete, the educational side takes between 3 and 7 years depending on what level the candidates can achieve. The college part is usually two days a week or three months block and then four months at work. If you progress all the way the last 3 years at Uni is full time.

I'm not too sure what our apprentices get paid although I know it's age related, over 18's will be on around £17k with a bit of overtime. Once qualified probably £25k-£40k depending on overtime and bonus schemes.

Cheers
Lee

eClaire

Electrical trades are good too. I do have an interest in them (I was accepted to the RAF as an Engineer at 16). With regards to taking the mick etc I have learned to turn a blind eye or give back as good as I get - I won't let something that silly discourage me from completing what I have to do for my career.

It's all getting a bit disheartening though I can't find much on the web about it. I know it's not going to happen over night but I wondering if it will be able to happen at all. You either have to be a school leaver or aged 16-19 and I have found that young English people have more going for them than we do up here in Scotland. I would re-locate but it wouldn't pay enough as I live at home at the moment so I'm not worried about wages being crappy to begin with.

eClaire

Can I come and work for you? Willing to relocate for 17k

Mitchy260

Won't you struggle to find an apprentice opportunity at the age of 21??? Most apprenticeships are for school leavers (16-18) or so i thought anyway.

Apprentice wages are absoloutly and entirely crap. My 16 year old brother has just started an apprenticeship as a plumber, its a 3 1/2 year apprenticeship and he earns £100 a week. This will rise to around 200-220 in the 3 1/2 year that he will be doing it. However time served plumbers working self employed can earn all sorts. Well in the south of England anyway.

This is not just the case for my brother, i know of at least a dozen other young lads working as apprentices and earning no more than £150 a week. The lowest earning £65 a week as a plasterer.

I don't know if its different south of the border, but i wouldn't get your hopes up of earning a good wage while doing an apprenticeship.

eClaire

I am prepared to earn keek money whilst training - I am living at home just now so I might as well take advantage of the situation

Mitchy260

How about your age??

Ive always assumed apprentices to be for people aged between 16-18. Probably totally wrong though!!

eClaire

Some employers take up to 24/25 but I am having difficulty finding one up here

How come all these toffs can do it but I can't? This is depressing as ****!

sti-04!!

Modern Apprenticeships are for ages 16 - 25

Usually dependent on the employer, but i think Claire has an advantage with her age being 21 shes not as daft as some 16 years old & will listen, its a bit of a gamble employing 16 - 18 year olds as when they settle in, they could turn out to be work shy & not interested, but then again they might not

Just my 2p's

Ps good luck Claire

eClaire

Cheers Stephen

logiclee

Until recently it was against the law for us to employ women. (Accept for offices or canteen etc.).

We are getting one or two females through now with specialised skills such as geology, surveying, human resources but no female applications for apprenticeships yet.

Cheers
Lee

M J B

You sure?
Last year when i was 23 i was looking to become and electrician and nobody was interested when they found out how old i was. If you can do it on 17k with overtime i would still be interested because i could keep up my mortgage etc.

logiclee

That's what we pay not the government pay scale.

All of our weekly paid workers are subject to one of four pay scales related to where they work once they are over 18. The apprentices are paid the same as manual workers as there is no special lower grade for them.

We set a couple of ex-army guys on last year who were both 23, good lads as well, far better than school leavers IMO much more willing to learn and get stuck in.

Cheers
Lee

eClaire

How do I get an application form?

Buzzer

Claire

I've been in the industry since i left school. I am a time served joiner, i completed my 3 years apprentiship and during that time was treated like a heap of sh1te. When out on site whatever you do dont get a chip on your shoulder that you have to make the tea and in most instances (especially on small projects) you will have to share toilet facilities. Remember that most mornings you'll be up at 6.00am to get to work for 8.00am and then you can start to scrape the ice off the scaffold

I managed to stick it for around 10 years (including apprentiship) before i had an accident that involved a 180 lbs fire door falling on my head and crushing two vertebrae and discs in my neck. This put me out of action for 3 years and i was told i couldn't do manual work again. During this time i went to Uni (through government re-training programme / social fund thing) and studied Quantity Surveying and Construction Estimating (ran in parrallel). Then after the three years i was taken on by a major construction company as an assistant QS. In the space of 3 years my wages had reduced by 70% but i had to get the experience I stuck with this company for two years only getting a £500.00 pay rise on my second year. I was offered a Contracts Manager position for another large company and took it (for an extra £1500.00 year) After being there for a year it was apparent that i could now move a bit more freely as i had the experience and qualifications. My company know what they have now and i'm glad to say they pay me what i should be paid. I'm quite senior here (at 36 y o) and probably within 5 years be a director of one the leading main contractors in this country.

You need to put up with all sorts of sh1te but you must go in with your eyes open. It isn't easy as you can see by the amount of people leaving the industry at site level. My recommendation would be to start down the office approach.

I'm not male chauvinist but i would really question whether a prospective employer in a male dominated enviroment would take you on.................. sorry

However there are loads of female office staff in the construction industry. I know many female QS's, office managers and engineers and they'll all A1 at their job. If you want to start your own business you must get to grips with BoQ's, Estimating, variations, instructions, unit rate build ups and final accounts. All of which fall under the QS's role. This is what you have to master if it is YOU who wants to run a company. I would suggest partnering with a plumber who can run the site side and then that leaves you to the warmer and more comfortable bit.

I know a lot about your own business in the Construction Industry as my dad and immediate boss in work have both had very successful construction / specialist sub contractor companies.

PM me or drop me an e-mail if want a bit more detailed discussion. There are things you must be aware of before you contemplate getting into construction

Cheers


Pete

logiclee

I'll have a word with our HR, not too sure if we are accepting applications at the moment.
Our work involves working underground miles from sanitation facilities in extremes of cold/heat and humidity. Although it is now not illegal for us to employ women underground, only positions where limited U/G work is required have been filled by women.
You also need to ask yourself wether working in 100+degree heat and high humidity while dragging 11000V power cable at 3am on a night shift is what you really want to do.
Most heavy industry electrical work involves at least 50% heavy physical work with probably around 25% screwdriver type work and the rest planning and programming.
Saying that now that I'm office based I do miss the work although I dont miss the Night shifts and the heat/cold.
As Buzzer has said all apprentices go through the crap jobs, sweeping up, making tea, carrying tool bags, painting, etc. Then usaully progress onto the heavy jobs where an extra pair of arms are required for lifting/pulling.



Cheers
Lee

eClaire

Cheers Guys

I'm not shy of physical work at all!! If anything I reckon will enjoy it. As for the crappy jobs - everyone has to start somewhere (and I make sh!te coffee so I suspect that part of it won't last for long ). Office jobs really don't do it for me anymore - don't get me wrong, I have a fantastic job at the moment and it has a LOT of prospects but it just isn't me !

I would really appreciate more info If I am going into this I have to have my eyes open - wide!

I was speaking to the National Programmes department at work today and they gave me the number for SNIPEF and told me to get in contact with them. Alternatively I can send out letters to all the Plumbing companies in the Yellow Pages explaining my situation!! The take in is round about this time of year so I really need to get thinking hard if I am going for it!

Chip

Claire,
When I worked for British Gas they took on 10 female apprentices. Not one of them is still there. The public for some reason didnt take to girl gas fitters. Lots of people still stuck in the "it's a mans job" sort of attitude. A few of them moved to other areas of the industry but all did have the problems of the the attitude of the general public.

Saying that a lot of them were from the valleys where it was, and still is to a certain extent a mans world.Maybe attitudes have changed the last few years but imagine Scotland may be the same.

Chip.

eClaire

About time it changed then isn't it

Chip

Best you stay away from York then unless you want to clean the fridge of course.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3912205.stm


Chip

eClaire

Auld tw@t can kiss my ****.

As if anyone will ever let that happen. Women certainly wouldn't and most men I know wouldn't dare!!

Mitchy260

Generally speaking, how often do you see a woman doing a 'mans' job??

I mean manual labour as in the building trade. I done a bit when i was younger on site and the attitude was woman will never be accepted in construction trades. Just the banter between the lads at tea break etc, ie speaking about the weekend ***** they had in graphic detail and having a lads laugh. Can you imagine if a woman were present??

I'd say 90% of woman are based in shops/schools/NHS/secretary/clerk duty roles etc etc that when a woman does want to do something as in a 'male' trade, its frowned upon.

Chip

Claires reply should be good!

Chip.

imlach

Yeah. Mitchy260, suspect you won't be on Claire's Xmas card list.....

It's attitudes like that which cause the discrimination in the first place

Mitchy260

Nothing against claire at all, go for it girl.

My post above is only a stereotypical view.

eClaire

A mans job?! Does the job actually belong to a man? No it doesn't. Just because and particular type of work is dominated by a particular gender does not mean it is their job. What about male office workers/shop workers/clerical and admin workers? Are they all doing women's jobs? No, I didn't think you would look at it that way.

As for the tea break banter - I could be equally as graphic if not more if need be - no need to curb conversation around me. I am quite capable of lowering my wit to accommodate those with a lesser IQ to join in with lads banter. But the tea break banter isn't what the job is about. And purely for those reasons I would be more determined to get where I want to be - if I do decide to choose this career path - they won't be slacking off with so many tea breaks talking filth in the time I am paying them for!!

Mitchy260

I did emphasise 'mans' job.

Quote......''I am quite capable of lowering my wit to accommodate those with a lesser IQ to join in with lads banter.''

Those of a lesser IQ??

I suppose you need to be open minded, i remember reading an article on how a woman sued her male boss for sexual harassment. It was an office based job but all it was were a few sly comments! no physical contacts and he stopped when she complained. She still won £30000 though and the boss was sacked.

Now im not going to get into the realms of right and wrongs but in the building trade you would be subjected to more of this type of banter. Not sexual abuse, but banter probably relating around sex 8 hours a day 40 hrs a week. Ive been there, seen it, wore the t-shirt.

Im not saying construction trades are mens jobs, i just think it needs a strong minded woman to join along within the banter that you would get day to day without taking it to seriously. Some people like my wife would take it as offensive, she's a londoner, what do you expect. LOL!!!