dtriggs

I havent decided what to buy but will buy something. But if I dont buy an iPod will I still be able to use iTunes ? The songs I have from iTunes are not in a format that other units than an iPOD can read as far as I know - so can they be converted ? and can they be downloaded to other jukebox devices ?

angrynorth

If you are talking about songs you have bought from the iTMS, then officially, yes the iPod is the only player that supports them.

If you use iTunes and like it you should get an iPod simply because of the way they work together, its amazing. Not to mention the fact that the latest ones just got a price reduction to £210 for 20gig

But if you must go to the darkside and get another type of player then you can use a piece of software called Hymn to strip the DRM so you can convert them. You will be able to find it on Google somewhere. I don't agree with this, but its your choice.

dtriggs

You seem to know what you're talking about - so I was looking at the iRiver stuff as it has a Radio and seems to have added functions - am I being an idiot ? Should I just buy an iPOD ?

angrynorth

If you really want the radio then get the iRiver as the iPod doesn't have this.

But I can't think of any other reason not to get the iPod, especially since you already have iTunes songs. The iPod is so good at what it does and working together with iTunes you will be glad you went for it.

dtriggs

Is it easy to copy cds thru iPOD / iTUNES - sorry for my ignorance just never done this type of thing - do you just import them into yr Library then sync ?

Am I missing something or is iTUNES not the easiest way of legally getting music from the net ?

angrynorth

iTunes is by far the most streamlined way for getting free music, it also has the fairest (to the customer) licensing rules.

As for ripping CD's, just put the CD in and click import which will show up as an icon in the top right.

Dracoro

You gotta weigh up all your requirements. If you really must use iTunes (and there are other players etc. about) then the iPod integrates nicely. However, there's far more to these devices (battery life, shared drive, personal visual preference, value for money etc.). I'm gonna get an iRiver 40GB for the reasons in the following thread.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...ghlight=iRiver
There's plenty of other players to consider too.

So think of ALL of your own requirements and weigh up which device fits them best.

angrynorth

Fully agree, without knwoing all of your reequirements it would be hard to tell you which is the best player.

But taking from what you have already said about you having iTMS tracks the iPod is your best bet.

Drac, you know the 4G iPod has 12 hour battery life, shared drive, remote, just £30 more than the iRiver, supports wma... Like I said, if the radio is essential then the iRiver is the only choice, if not it has to be the iPod.

Markus

Thank god this is not slashdot, otherwise we'd have the geeks saying "why not to get an iPod?" Well it's not got ogg support, whine, whine, moan, whinge, complain (like the sad fecked up *nix geeks they are)

I might be a hardcore Mac fan, and so, would have to get an iPod, but with iTunes being available on the PC, I'd probably still get an iPod even if I did not have a mac. OK, som other systems out there are cheaper and might be more feature laden than the iPod, but hey I'm geeky and like the iPod.

NicoRossi

Get one of the Creative Labs ones, far better VFM than the iPods and better battery support etc. iPods are outrageously overpriced, I got a 30gb Creative Zen NX for £199 (Dec 03) and the iPod then was about £240 for a 20gig one with dreadful battery life in comparison . I think they have come down in price a bit now though, (£199 for a 20gig one on Amazon now), but you're paying for the name with the iPod, look around....

916Duke

I've too have just bought an I-River after doing extensive research... depends what you are after though... Having 16hrs battery life, an FM tuner, and optical in and out there really didn't seem much in the way of a comparison for me.... The i-pod does have a fantastic user interface and good marketing, but it's just too expensive for too little for me.... For user reviews of the two have a look at http:\www.advancedmp3players.co.uk

angrynorth

You are not paying for the name at all. You are paying for what is undoubtedly the best mp3 player out there. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. Believe me I've used most of the competitor units and even sit next to a guy with a brand new iRiver. But overall not one can match the overall package you get with the iPod unfortunately if you never use one you will never know what you are actually missing.

To echo what Markus just said, even early last year when I was solely PC based I still would have had the iPod over any other, even if it meant dealing with Musicsnatch.

Unfortunately its looking increasingly likely that the iPod will become the same as the Mac operating system, berated by the PC centric and ill informed press. Mindwashed to believe that the battery only lasts 20 minutes and that it will cost you 4.3 million pounds per month to buy.

There are iPods that are a couple of years old still selling on ebay for a £130 quid! That is value for money for you.

Markus

Can someone explain this "iPods have bad battery life" thing to me please?

The two chaps here have iPods, one is a G2 the other a G3. The guys have NEVER complained about battery life and they regularly fly to/from UK/Canada and use the iPods with no issues at all.

Are we simply talking about how long it'd run without a charge? are you seriously telling me that you would use the thing for a continuous 12 hours without a recharge, and that you'd not have it on charge if you're not actually using it? Maybe I'm just ****, but if I wasn't using the ipod (if i had one of course) it'd either be in it's dock or charging somewhere, makes no sense to leave it lying around doing nothing.

Oh, and I'm not being a zealot here, I'm genuinley interested to know what the whole battery thing is about.

I know a fair few people who don't "get" how the lith ion (tis lith ion I think?) batteries work, ie; if you let them totally discharge, you'll be bloody lucky to get them charged again, and this is where I think many people started screaming about ipod's with dead batteries, they did not undertand that they are not like normal rechargeable batteries. Have a feeling this might explain the "batteries" page that apple now has. OK, I'll admit they could have informed people a little better, maybe they did, I've not got an iPod so not seen the documentation with it, there might be a warning or something there.

Oh, and if you have an iPod, don't bother with Harmony, it's going to be blocked in the next iPod update

angrynorth

There are now about 16 iPods in my office, all get listened too for most of the working day, nobody has complained about battery life once. A good mixture of 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen here, plus a couple of minis. There is even a 3 year old original 5gig that is used daily!

Even the Neistat brothers who made the video, themselves admitted it was a publicity stunt for their own work and that they both have iPods and love them. But thats not what the PC mags report is it?

My 3rd gen will easily get 9 hours per charge, and as I don't plan on using it for more than 6-7 hours a day then thats not going to be a problem for me.

However at least the Neistat video prompted Apple to up the battery life to 12 hours. (A corporation taking note of its customers requests for more battery life.)

Mine is just on the desk most of the day, not docked. Then when I get home it just gets put in the dock and iTunes updates it and charges it whilst I do what I want.

916Duke

I've tried both - and for my requirements; wanting to be able to record / play via optical in and out and using for over 12 hours on one charge with the promise that it will support gapless playback on the next firmware release, I opted for the I-River. Not saying the i-pod it worse, just that for what I wanted it suits me. The i-pod is a very 'cool' product that is extremely well marketed, but there's better out there IMHO...

angrynorth

916 that's fair enough, you need a feature that isn't supported, what else are you going to do?

That doesn't bother me at all, its the ill-educated view points such as saying they are overpriced or that its all about marketing that's annoying.

(PS optical out is expected on next update, no sign of optical in though )

NicoRossi

I have tried both before and preferred the Creative one in every aspect, so it was a bit of a no-brainer for me to choose the cheaper and, for me, better player. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Dracoro

The marketing etc is a big factor though.

Forget the actual product for a second, I've spoken to some iPod users and asked them what made them choose it over the competition and the replies are 'what others'? Many of the public are unaware that there are actually other devices on the market. Apple got in first with the big marketing and that's a large factor in why so many people have them. Added to it being 'cool' a pretty decent product, it'll be a winner. I personally like the iPod but it just doesn't give me the overal package that I want whereas others do.

At the end of the day, there is no blanket 'best' product here. Only the one that suits your needs best. And that varies from individual to individual. After all, my westie is the best car I've driven but it'd be no good if I needed to carry 2 other people

angrynorth

Don't agree with the bit about the marketing. Marketing is open to all of the competitors. Not only that, it is more than balanced out by PC based websites and magazines giving the iPod bad reviews because its Apple.

As for the people who knew of no alternatives well, if they bought something without first looking for alternatives then more fool them.

Also, I wouldn't recommend an iPod, Mac, PC, phone, Xbox or anything to someone who I genuinely didn't believe it would be the best option for.
I even recommended a flash based iRiver to my sister the other week because she wanted something cheap and small. Whenever I get PM's asking about Macs I always recommend anyone that asks about buying a Mac or a PC to get the PC if they want games or a particular feature that isn't supported by OSX.

Earlier in this thread I recommend the iRiver as triggs asks about the radio feature. But as I have said, if that is the only extra he needs and its not that important then considering he is obviously already using iTunes and has bought songs from it, the iPod is the obvious choice.

Do not assume that I am not thinking in the best interests of the original poster merely because of my usage of a Mac.

Dracoro

Apple have a much bigger advertising/marketing budget than iRiver or Creative could ever dream of having. Look around, loads of iPod posters everywhere (the tube was swamped with them recently), tv ads, big mag ads etc. They've certainly invested in this. PC (and Mac) magazines are only really hitting a small comparitive market in comparison to the iPod posters. I'll wager that many people buy these devices without spending much time investigating. I mean, people do this with cars!!

I'm not saying it's sold purely because of the marketing as it's a good product and will sell well regardless. However you can't deny that advertising it everywhere has made it a massive success. Best combination that, clever marketing AND a good product. The creative, iRiver etc are also good products but the marketing certainly isn't.

I don't assume you're not thinking in the best interest of the original poster, but there are a lot of people about who do (on both 'sides'). I'm too a Mac user and have a PC next to it too at work. I hate them both as much as each other

dtriggs

Ok so I am totally split. When I started this I downloaded itunes to get a feel for it - bought 1 album again to see how it works. So I am not exactly committed to it, but quite impressed with the ease of use and availability.

Having said that my main purpose is to put my cd collection on it, not download from the net particularly. I also fancy a radio, which is not on the ipod. Ref Optical in - is this so I can record from the cd player direct into it ? Otherwise cant see why I would need it ? Battery life - I am happy with either especially as the ipod has 12 hrs now.

So really my decision comes down to a few simple things:

1) I know ipod software is good - does iriver compete ? (Dracor can u advise ?)

2) do I need a radio (50:50 on this one) - is it any good on the iriver anyway ?

3) do I need the additional functionality (optical etc) against slightly easier user interface on the ipod (if apple fans are to be believed).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

angrynorth

Yes Apple advertise more, but they also have to overcome the PC bias. The advertising will have helped it along the way, but to say it is the main reason for its success (as many do about all Apple products) is wrong.

Quite frankly I don't care whether there are a million people "on both sides" who think I am not offering advice in someone's best interest, as they wouldn't know my motives. I know sometimes I do get argumentative, but I hate outright dismissal and exaggeration of ill-informed facts whether that's related to computing or anything else in life.

At the end of the day, this is like the Mac/PC debate, there will never be a solution as tis each to their own at the end of the day.

angrynorth

1) You can use windows media player and windows explorer *more clarification from Drac

2) Do you need a radio? Only you can answer that one

3) The optical will be on the iPod soon anyway because of AirPort Express, also Apples audio format (Dolby AAC) supports multi-channel output so it will be good for that.

Like I said before the iPod software is iTunes, if you like that, you will like the iPod as it sits with it perfectly, and easily.

Dracoro

I think you misinterpreted my post. The million people on each side are the ones who are wrong in only considering the products in their 'domain'. You or I (and some others) will try to be objective when purchasing or advising purchases.

dtriggs - regarding the software - it's best to try the device yourself to see how you get on with it. It may or may not suit you. It's been said that the iRiver s/ware seems a little confusing at first but after a few uses it's comes apparent that it's actually a rather good way of doing things. I also like the fact that you don't have navigate tracks using ID3 tags. This means I can navigate to tracks in the same way that I do on my PC (i.e. via folder structure). Just the habit that I'm in so it suits me.

angrynorth

My apologies, I did indeed misinterpret what you said, and you are right in that I will look at both sides of the coin for advising purchases as I am sure you will.

Jiggerypokery

Yes, the simplest way of doing this without extra dodgy conversion software is to burn them onto CD, then re-rip the CD back to mp3, after that you can do what you want with the files.

angrynorth

Yes this is possible, but using the Hymn software means that although the DRM is stripped and conversion can be done, the purchase information is left in the file. So if the BPI did come knocking on your door, you could still prove you bought the songs and not get sued. Overall protecting you from possible future copyright problems.

unclebuck

*FASHION VICTIM ALERT*

*FASHION VICTIM ALERT*

*FASHION VICTIM ALERT*

lpski1

does anyone use the 'search' function anymore, if not, i think snet should remove it.

angrynorth

** iSore alert **

** iSore alert **

** iSore alert **

** iSore alert **