The divisevness of human nature
21 July 2004, 10:20 AM
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The divisevness of human nature
Picking up on several recent threads - I am constantly puzzled by humans ability to adopt raging double standards and ability to keep finding reasons to be divided and disagree.
Does anyone around here live and let live? Has anyone ever reserved judgement on someone because they don't know the full story? (Or are we assuming we do because "it says so in the papers"?
)
Please could anyone who has been busy passing judgement on what's right and what's wrong with the way other people live their lives explain to me how perfect they are?
I know I'm a bit of an old hippy, but why can't we channel all our energies into getting along better and understanding each other a bit more, and less on picking on differences and forming opinions based on nothing but hear say?
Does anyone around here live and let live? Has anyone ever reserved judgement on someone because they don't know the full story? (Or are we assuming we do because "it says so in the papers"?
)Please could anyone who has been busy passing judgement on what's right and what's wrong with the way other people live their lives explain to me how perfect they are?
I know I'm a bit of an old hippy, but why can't we channel all our energies into getting along better and understanding each other a bit more, and less on picking on differences and forming opinions based on nothing but hear say?
21 July 2004, 10:24 AM
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I have a friend of mine to thank for my habit of trying to read between the lines on news stories.
Having known the full truth behind a couple of (minor) news items makes you realise how easy it is to distort the truth.
People seem to forget that what they are reading is someones 'take' on a story, it will never be the *simple* truth.
When i read an article nowadays I try to read it twice and then three times to see if I can see what is going on in the writers mind...
Worth doing, sometimes when you dig a little deeper you can find some interesting facts out, but the problem is: it takes time and effort and despite my best intentions I rarely do look in depth enough.
Having known the full truth behind a couple of (minor) news items makes you realise how easy it is to distort the truth.
People seem to forget that what they are reading is someones 'take' on a story, it will never be the *simple* truth.
When i read an article nowadays I try to read it twice and then three times to see if I can see what is going on in the writers mind...
Worth doing, sometimes when you dig a little deeper you can find some interesting facts out, but the problem is: it takes time and effort and despite my best intentions I rarely do look in depth enough.
21 July 2004, 10:25 AM
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Please could anyone who has been busy passing judgement on what's right and what's wrong with the way other people live their lives explain to me how perfect they are?
21 July 2004, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
Picking up on several recent threads - I am constantly puzzled by humans ability to adopt raging double standards and ability to keep finding reasons to be divided and disagree.
Does anyone around here live and let live? Has anyone ever reserved judgement on someone because they don't know the full story? (Or are we assuming we do because "it says so in the papers"? )
Please could anyone who has been busy passing judgement on what's right and what's wrong with the way other people live their lives explain to me how perfect they are?
I know I'm a bit of an old hippy, but why can't we channel all our energies into getting along better and understanding each other a bit more, and less on picking on differences and forming opinions based on nothing but hear say?
Does anyone around here live and let live? Has anyone ever reserved judgement on someone because they don't know the full story? (Or are we assuming we do because "it says so in the papers"?
)Please could anyone who has been busy passing judgement on what's right and what's wrong with the way other people live their lives explain to me how perfect they are?
I know I'm a bit of an old hippy, but why can't we channel all our energies into getting along better and understanding each other a bit more, and less on picking on differences and forming opinions based on nothing but hear say?
I wish everyone got on and eveyone was accepted (within reason) however this is not the case as we do not live in a perfect world. So, discussion based on opinion is IMO a good thing.
21 July 2004, 10:36 AM
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No - but you should be able to offer sound reasoning and experience for how you arrived at it. Seems to be missing at the mo.....
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21 July 2004, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by **************
By saying what my opinion is is not dictating to anyone how they should live their life. Its my OPINION. I am entitled to it. I don't have to say how perfect my life is because you don't like my opinion.
What i want to know is why it's the "namby-pamby-PC-brigade-forgive-everyone-lets-all-live-in-harmony-tree-hugger-every-man-woman-animal-and-plant-is equal" types who are the ones who try to inflict their own PERSONAL opinions on everyone else, and try to convert anyone who doesn't agree with them?
21 July 2004, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Iwan
What i want to know is why it's the "namby-pamby-PC-brigade-forgive-everyone-lets-all-live-in-harmony-tree-hugger-every-man-woman-animal-and-plant-is equal" types who are the ones who try to inflict their own PERSONAL opinions on everyone else, and try to convert anyone who doesn't agree with them?
21 July 2004, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Iwan
Exactly what i think, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Even if they can't voice it publicly for fear of being branded homophobic/racist/vegetarian/fascist etc by the PC brigade.
What i want to know is why it's the "namby-pamby-PC-brigade-forgive-everyone-lets-all-live-in-harmony-tree-hugger-every-man-woman-animal-and-plant-is equal" types who are the ones who try to inflict their own PERSONAL opinions on everyone else, and try to convert anyone who doesn't agree with them?
What i want to know is why it's the "namby-pamby-PC-brigade-forgive-everyone-lets-all-live-in-harmony-tree-hugger-every-man-woman-animal-and-plant-is equal" types who are the ones who try to inflict their own PERSONAL opinions on everyone else, and try to convert anyone who doesn't agree with them?
21 July 2004, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
No - but you should be able to offer sound reasoning and experience for how you arrived at it. Seems to be missing at the mo.....
21 July 2004, 11:03 AM
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OK - I'll try to do this in simple English...
It's O K to have an op-in-ion as long as you have some basis for it, how can you have an opinion and be unable to explain your reason for it?
Challenge me on my opinions and I'd be happy to discuss them. What do you learn in this world if you don't ask for reasons....?
All I'm saying is be nice, reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view. If you don't want to that's up to you.
It's O K to have an op-in-ion as long as you have some basis for it, how can you have an opinion and be unable to explain your reason for it?
Challenge me on my opinions and I'd be happy to discuss them. What do you learn in this world if you don't ask for reasons....?
All I'm saying is be nice, reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view. If you don't want to that's up to you.
21 July 2004, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Drunken Bungle *****
OK - I'll try to do this in simple English...
It's O K to have an op-in-ion as long as you have some basis for it, how can you have an opinion and be unable to explain your reason for it?
Challenge me on my opinions and I'd be happy to discuss them. What do you learn in this world if you don't ask for reasons....?
All I'm saying is be nice, reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view. If you don't want to that's up to you.
It's O K to have an op-in-ion as long as you have some basis for it, how can you have an opinion and be unable to explain your reason for it?
Challenge me on my opinions and I'd be happy to discuss them. What do you learn in this world if you don't ask for reasons....?
All I'm saying is be nice, reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view. If you don't want to that's up to you.
Why do we have to explain opinions to anyone - they're ours not yours !
Are you a Jehovah's Witness ?
21 July 2004, 01:12 PM
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reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view. If you don't want to that's up to you.
21 July 2004, 01:21 PM
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DBW,
I can see what you are getting at and agree with you.
My best mate came out a few years back and is living with another guy. I always supported him which I never had a problem with.
I did have problems with the whole gay scene thing but after a while my wife and myself went out with my mate and to be honest I was very suprised.
The whole thing is not what I expected, 99% of the people have respect for other people regardless of their sexual orientation, there is not the agressive yob culture that exists in the hetrosexual scene or the competative atmosphere you get in most clubs. Everyone is out for a good night without the need to get so drunk you throw up or end the night with a fight.
Most gay couples I have met since are in every other way so called "Normal" people and a lot more decent than 90% of the Trisha, Chav, WifeSwap hetro couples you see on the TV.
The TV may show the extremes of hetro life styles but they also show the extremes of gay lifestyles.
If I had a child and anything happened to myself and Lorriane I would rather the child be looked after by gay couple such as my mate than be looked after by some chav hetro couple.
My mate has to put up with loads of abuse from ignorant people, he owns his own buissiness and one guy sent by the job centre has even refused to work for him when he found out his new boss was gay.
I must admit the whole gay thing would have made me cringe 10 years ago but thankfully I now have my personal experience of the gay world and can make my own informed opinions.
Cheers
Lee
I can see what you are getting at and agree with you.
My best mate came out a few years back and is living with another guy. I always supported him which I never had a problem with.
I did have problems with the whole gay scene thing but after a while my wife and myself went out with my mate and to be honest I was very suprised.
The whole thing is not what I expected, 99% of the people have respect for other people regardless of their sexual orientation, there is not the agressive yob culture that exists in the hetrosexual scene or the competative atmosphere you get in most clubs. Everyone is out for a good night without the need to get so drunk you throw up or end the night with a fight.
Most gay couples I have met since are in every other way so called "Normal" people and a lot more decent than 90% of the Trisha, Chav, WifeSwap hetro couples you see on the TV.
The TV may show the extremes of hetro life styles but they also show the extremes of gay lifestyles.
If I had a child and anything happened to myself and Lorriane I would rather the child be looked after by gay couple such as my mate than be looked after by some chav hetro couple.
My mate has to put up with loads of abuse from ignorant people, he owns his own buissiness and one guy sent by the job centre has even refused to work for him when he found out his new boss was gay.
I must admit the whole gay thing would have made me cringe 10 years ago but thankfully I now have my personal experience of the gay world and can make my own informed opinions.
Cheers
Lee
21 July 2004, 01:39 PM
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When i read an article nowadays I try to read it twice and then three times to see if I can see what is going on in the writers mind...
I dont read the "News" anymore as its is not news in the normal sense. Every media outlet has an agenda which blatently twists the same news story to its own ends. The Sun Licks the **** of whoever is in power at the moment, the Mail Demonises and makes everything out to be bad cos Labour are in, the Torygraph does the same, but to a lesser extent and the BBC is so in bed with New Labour that it is almost painful to watch.
It is not news, it is propaganda. As such i refuse to watch it.
astraboy.
21 July 2004, 01:51 PM
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DBW,
its a nice viewpoint to take, it is however a but utopian.
the problem with some people (probably myself included) is that we have been caught out when being nice, some toe-rag will use it to their advantage in some way to the detriment of me.
then apply the adage, once bitten, twice shy.
its more a self defence mechanism that has been necessitated by experience.
Peanuts.
some p.s.'s
the above should only apply in real life and not a bbs.
I was going to give my references re:gay couples but the thread got locked
All I'm saying is be nice, reserve judgment and try to see things from someone elses point of view.
the problem with some people (probably myself included) is that we have been caught out when being nice, some toe-rag will use it to their advantage in some way to the detriment of me.
then apply the adage, once bitten, twice shy.
its more a self defence mechanism that has been necessitated by experience.
Peanuts.
some p.s.'s
the above should only apply in real life and not a bbs.
I was going to give my references re:gay couples but the thread got locked
21 July 2004, 02:08 PM
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Why is it the minority can hate who they want but the majority have to be tolerant of everything?
We all form our opinions from different sources, personal experience, media, peer pressure, whatever, but at the end of the day it is a personal opinion and how somebody got to it isn't important.
I don't like gay men, so what? I'm entitled to not like them or approve of what they do.
I don't like kiddy fiddlers. Would I be demonised for that? I doubt it.
Up until about 35 years ago gay sex was illegal, maybe in another 35 years it might be legal to f*ck kids, I hope not but you never know.
I would still dislike kiddy fiddlers.
All my opinions and not justifiable to anyone.
T.G.
We all form our opinions from different sources, personal experience, media, peer pressure, whatever, but at the end of the day it is a personal opinion and how somebody got to it isn't important.
I don't like gay men, so what? I'm entitled to not like them or approve of what they do.
I don't like kiddy fiddlers. Would I be demonised for that? I doubt it.
Up until about 35 years ago gay sex was illegal, maybe in another 35 years it might be legal to f*ck kids, I hope not but you never know.
I would still dislike kiddy fiddlers.
All my opinions and not justifiable to anyone.
T.G.
21 July 2004, 02:08 PM
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DBW,
I can see where you are coming from, but the point is this.
This is not a debating chamber. There is need for someone to have a reason for having an opinion. That opinion may have been formed due to the environment in which the individual exists, his or her culture, or many other factors on a subconscious level.
I don't like green cars. I don't know why, but I know that I don't like them. I think they look terrible. Its an opinion, but it has no sound reasoning behind it.
Whats the difference to saying "I don't like homosexuality. I don't know why but I don't like it. I think its terrible and I don;t agree with it".
The only time you should be able to back up an opinion is when you are trying to convince another to understanding (and ultimately agreeing with) your point of view - which was not the case as far as i can see it.
You may choose to give a reason, to aid someone's understanding, but its a voluntary act.
Peace to all
D
I can see where you are coming from, but the point is this.
This is not a debating chamber. There is need for someone to have a reason for having an opinion. That opinion may have been formed due to the environment in which the individual exists, his or her culture, or many other factors on a subconscious level.
I don't like green cars. I don't know why, but I know that I don't like them. I think they look terrible. Its an opinion, but it has no sound reasoning behind it.
Whats the difference to saying "I don't like homosexuality. I don't know why but I don't like it. I think its terrible and I don;t agree with it".
The only time you should be able to back up an opinion is when you are trying to convince another to understanding (and ultimately agreeing with) your point of view - which was not the case as far as i can see it.
You may choose to give a reason, to aid someone's understanding, but its a voluntary act.
Peace to all
D
21 July 2004, 02:13 PM
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DBW - Do you know what Gay men do
Most people expressing horror at the attitudes of the un-informed seem to blinker themselves from the reality of life. If I don't want to closely associate with or approve of Gays then I wont. I certainly wouldn't want to take the risk that they would do it in my house (or in a bed that I was going to be sleeping in next for that matter).
All the folk slating of the B&B man would be quite happy to jump into a bed knowing it has just been used for Gay sex would they - WOULD THEY **** !!!
I'm sure this post will be deleted but you wanted plain English - YOU GOT IT !
Don't get me wrong - A Gay man can do what he ******* well wants - but I don't have to approve of it or agree that it's normal - Anymore than Child molestation is - They just love young kids you know !!!!!
Most people expressing horror at the attitudes of the un-informed seem to blinker themselves from the reality of life. If I don't want to closely associate with or approve of Gays then I wont. I certainly wouldn't want to take the risk that they would do it in my house (or in a bed that I was going to be sleeping in next for that matter).
All the folk slating of the B&B man would be quite happy to jump into a bed knowing it has just been used for Gay sex would they - WOULD THEY **** !!!
I'm sure this post will be deleted but you wanted plain English - YOU GOT IT !
Don't get me wrong - A Gay man can do what he ******* well wants - but I don't have to approve of it or agree that it's normal - Anymore than Child molestation is - They just love young kids you know !!!!!
Last edited by jasey; 21 July 2004 at 02:18 PM.
21 July 2004, 02:19 PM
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strange obsession with **** sex, despite the fact that a sizeable proprotion of the gay community don't practice this, and a sizeable proportion of the hererosexual population do.
21 July 2004, 02:24 PM
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I think the title of this thread is somewhat rhetorical!
It is human nature to be divisive. We yearn to subdivide the planet into countries, the people into races. People crave individuality for themselves whilst spurning the indivualities that others have chosen to adopt. We form our opinions based on our own experiences. We are different.
It is a survival strategy. All avenues are explored and all approaches tried. The approaches that don't work are dropped, the ones that do perpetuate and all the while we constantly re-assess our own way of doing something, our own beliefs and approaches by comparing them, often competitively and aggressively, with others of our own kind.
Disagreement is healthy, its thought provoking and stimulating and I for one wouldn't have it any other way!
It is human nature to be divisive. We yearn to subdivide the planet into countries, the people into races. People crave individuality for themselves whilst spurning the indivualities that others have chosen to adopt. We form our opinions based on our own experiences. We are different.
It is a survival strategy. All avenues are explored and all approaches tried. The approaches that don't work are dropped, the ones that do perpetuate and all the while we constantly re-assess our own way of doing something, our own beliefs and approaches by comparing them, often competitively and aggressively, with others of our own kind.
Disagreement is healthy, its thought provoking and stimulating and I for one wouldn't have it any other way!
21 July 2004, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ajm
I think the title of this thread is somewhat rhetorical!
It is human nature to be divisive. We yearn to subdivide the planet into countries, the people into races. People crave individuality for themselves whilst spurning the indivualities that others have chosen to adopt. We form our opinions based on our own experiences. We are different.
It is a survival strategy. All avenues are explored and all approaches tried. The approaches that don't work are dropped, the ones that do perpetuate and all the while we constantly re-assess our own way of doing something, our own beliefs and approaches by comparing them, often competitively and aggressively, with others of our own kind.
Disagreement is healthy, its thought provoking and stimulating and I for one wouldn't have it any other way!
It is human nature to be divisive. We yearn to subdivide the planet into countries, the people into races. People crave individuality for themselves whilst spurning the indivualities that others have chosen to adopt. We form our opinions based on our own experiences. We are different.
It is a survival strategy. All avenues are explored and all approaches tried. The approaches that don't work are dropped, the ones that do perpetuate and all the while we constantly re-assess our own way of doing something, our own beliefs and approaches by comparing them, often competitively and aggressively, with others of our own kind.
Disagreement is healthy, its thought provoking and stimulating and I for one wouldn't have it any other way!