Stueyb

Hi peeps,

Its a complicated question and the solictor is playing silly buggers so here is how it lies.

Our house was bought with a nice garden etc and survey was done etc etc and we duely got the house. However we found out that about 10 years ago some land was given away by the previous owner to the people at the back. They refused to give it back and have now build a conservatory on it. If you look at the land deeds its bloody obvious that the garden is about 20* 20 foot shorter than the plans state. Surely if the surveyor was doing his job he should have noticed this ?

Where do I stand (probabily nowhere but its worth asking)

imlach

All depends on the deeds. If the deeds to the house were not changed 10 years ago, I think the land should be yours - but then 10 years of them having it as "theirs" so to speak may give them some right to it???

Also, did the previous owner "give it away" including ownership?

Your solicitor should be well on the case on this one.....that's what you pay him for!

imlach

PS I don't think you'd want to be sueing the surveyor - he doesn't concern himself with land boundary issues etc - it is the solicitor you'd want to be asking questions of.

Stueyb

imlach, problem is that now they have had their money, they just arent interested. As for it if was given away, dont know as the old dear shuffled her purch before we bought, hence why it was on the market.

The deeds that I have seen, the latest ones, the same that the surveyor supposedly looked at, clearly show the land in question belonging to our house.

Problem is I dont want to cause ill will, but they cant be expected to knock down their conservatory but I want some form of comeback as I feel diddled.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

dont want ill feeling they have build a conservatory on what you thought was your garden i think the ill feeling bit has long gone, get your self down to the council and find out exactly where the land boundaries are, im sure there will be someone that you can pay to find out exactly as you will need all this sort of evidence if you wish to pursue a claim anyway plus if you find out it is your land you have the other people over a barrel as if they have a conservatory on your land it must be worth a fortune now as its up to you to name your price or the conservatory get it

imlach

The solicitor should be dealing with deed issues.

....and yes, your solicitors fee covers investigations like this. Ask him/her to clarify the position. You paid him to do a job, now make sure he does it

imlach

The solictor would have seen the history of the deeds when he did the house search on the land registry. He should know if the deeds were changed to include this "sale" of your garden.

I'd have no qualms in claiming your garden back. If not, get the CURRENT full market value of it from your neighbour. It is probably worth a substantial sum.

I'd get your solicitor's ar$e kicked into action.

IWatkins

Isn't there some law that if you occupy some land for 12+ years without being chucked off, it is yours ?

Would get it checked out pronto.

Cheers

Ian

Stueyb

Thats what they tried to fob me off with last time Ian, but the problem is, no one actually knows when the handover occured.

Stueyb

Basically I dont want to start a war with the people in question, as im not one for confrontation! but if the solictor where to give me current value for their screwup that would be ideal

DocJock

Did you buy the house thinking the existing (smaller) garden was the limit of your property ?

If (as I read your posts) the answer is "yes", why do you feel hard done by ?

Stueyb

DocJock, I feel hard done by because I paid the solictor a not inconsiderable sum to carry out such checks and the solictor failed in his duty to even

a) find the fact out
b) inform us of such.

Isnt it called due dilligence or something similar ?

imlach

You are well within your rights to get this clarified by your solicitor as part of your original fee. If he disagrees, take things further with the Law Society.

Stueyb

imlach, I will do that tommorow and see what the outcome is because im sick of being fobbed off. Cheers for the info peeps

Chris_

Imlach is correct in that it has nothing to do with the surveyor and if I read your post correctly its not the fault of your conveyancing solicitor either. Because the land was given by verbal agreement only no boundaries or deeds would have been changed.

IWatkins is also correct in thinking that there is a law whereby if you have sole use of a piece of land for a number of years it becomes yours although I have not seen this problem for some years and would have to check if its still valid. Some time ago I acted in a dispute over some commercial land which had property on it and won on the basis that it had been in use by the current occupier for at least 12 years and proved by means of aerial photos. (probably not what you want to hear)

I have a number of conveyancing solicitors that do work for me on a regular basis, so if you want some help, let me know and I will see what I can do.

imlach

Surely if no-one can prove anything in terms of timescales, then the judgement would be based on the last proveable ownership, ie the deeds?

I guess the only concrete (sic) evidence would be the date of construction of the conservatory? Does it look over 12 years old?

Stueyb

imlach, its brand bloody new, thats what started me off as they can pry in the comfort of their extension lol

chris's scooby

The occupier of the land would need to prove their occupation over the last 12 years in order to prove "adverse possession".

It is doubtful i feel that a surveyor would have seen the title deeds. What type of survey did u have, valuation/homebuyers/full building survey?

Some of u may be shocked to learn how little time a surveyor spends on each survey and how much they miss, it's not unusual for 2 or 3 surveys to be done on the same property to came back with different results.

It does sound as though your solicitor maybe more to blame, they have the documents from the land registry as well as the estate agents details which normally have the garden sizes on.

It could be there is some comeback against the previous owner if they didn't declare any of the problems when they sold the house to you ( Sellers property information form)

If i was in your position i'd speak to a senior partner at the solicitors and if you don't have any joy speak to a different firm of solicitors. I'm sure most other firms will be happy to act for you.

Hope some of this may help. I guess the best thing to do is get some proper legal advise for someone who can properly address all the facts. My thoughts were just my honest opinion for what you had posted.

kelvin

Lol - the Scoobynet book of Law strikes again

Was the property registered prior to you purchasing the house, or did registration take place at the time of purchase? Leaving the deeds aside, what does the Land Registry plan show as being your property?

Everything hinges on how the land was transferred at the time - if it was done correctly (by deed), then your neighbour has legal title regardless (the land won't appear under the title no. of your property), if it was transferred any other way (by contract - not necessarily visible by looking at the title plans), then your neighbour may well posess equitable rights over the land.

Only if no contract existed (unlikely), and the land is shown as yours under the HMLR title plan will you stand any chance (IMO) of fully recovering the land, or it's value. Particularly if you purchased having viewed the land in advance...

Forget the whole adverse posession argument - the period of time necessary to substantiate a claim isn't present.

K.

Chris_

For claims in relation to land, the period is 12 years, so that title to land is lost after 12 years by adverse possession (commonly known as “squatters rights”). Matters concerning adverse position have however, been affected by the recent Land Registration Act 2002 and specialist advice is always required when such matters arise.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'd be inclined to write off the land, but put up a large pry-tastic fence between you and them.


THEN sue the solicitor for damages.

Alcazar

scoobybitch

Depending on when this bloke built his conservatory he would have to apply for planning permission, with the land not showing up on record as his I very much doubt he has planning permission, speak to your local council, find out the boundary of your property & speak to your solicitor again.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, but I'm with DocJock on this.
Although the Solicitor may have ballsed up their search- If you were happy with the visual size of the boundary when you viewed the house then what do you really want out of this situation?

If you want to sue the solicitor then they'll wriggle like a greased eel and you'll waste your valuable time and money to get what?
If you try to get the land back or get money out of the neighbour then you'll make yourself very popular (no doubt the story will travel the neighbourhood on your actions).
Perhaps there is another route though?
If there are any legal eagles watching, is there a case against the old lady's executors in not disposing of her assets correctly?
Her assets as shown at the land registry take in more land than was sold. Can recompense be sought from them?


Nick

chris's scooby

it's best to try and not have a dispute with the neighbour as if u sell in the future u will be required by law to disclose the fact , along with the reason for it.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

be happy with your house you've just bought.
quite obviously you bought the house with the land as is and if you hadnt have been looking whistfully through the deeds with your significant other you'd have been none the wiser.
take heart from the fact that the little old lady did a good deed and you can do the same by just simply dropping it and not looking out to grab back what may/may not be yours.
it will all end in tears and with you having a bad name in the neighbourhood.

mad_dr

Do you mean to say that any disputes that you may have with your neighbours bust be discolsed when you sell a property. Don't think so mate...

As far as I'm concerned, no one likes a troublemaker, but land ain't cheap anymore. What the old lady did before she died is her problem not yours - the people who have built the conservatory will need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the land now legally belongs to them and if they can prove that, then it's time for you to kick your solicior's ****. If he's bu99ered this up, I wonder what else he's bu99ered up!

At the end of the day - regardless of where you thought your boundaries lay, if the solicitor has fooked up - you should kick up a huge fuss. These money grabbing solititors charge a fortune and take an eternity to do their job with the age-old excuse that what they do is very important. Therefore if they can't even do their job properly, you have every right to take a chunk mate.

I'm in the process of buying a property. I'm a cash buyer with NO chain and STILL my solicitor has managed to drag the process out to 2 months so far. Next time I buy or sell somewhere, I'm doing all the legal stuff myself! My dad did it a couple of years back and managed to sell, exchange and complete within 2 weeks.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Do you mean to say that any disputes that you may have with your neighbours bust be discolsed when you sell a property. Don't think so mate...


yes, thats exactly the law at the moment, all disputes must be disclosed at time of sale with reasons

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

sorry, but why would you have a problem with your neighbours bust

ProperCharlie

just fire bomb the conservatory and have done with it

</constructive advice mode>

Apparition

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosin...tocomplain.law

This may be of help !