Diablo

Following on from the football threads, perhaps this will help explain why most Scots are not supporting England in Euro 2004, and possibly likewise the Welsh and the Irish

I can understand why many of you are shocked that we in Scotland, as British citizens, do not get behind a team from Britain. On the face of it, it sounds crazy. Indeed, I am a firm supporter of one Jenson Button regardless of his allegiance to that white flag with the red cross . In any event, our own boy in F1 is getting past his sell by date

In all honesty, most of us, despite the hype. don’t hate the English. What we can’t stand is the arrogance that is portrayed to us through the media of the English nation at any team sporting event. I will agree that it is, in my experience at least, an unfair perception, but that’s what the media portrays.

There is also a perception, right or wrong, that Scotland, Ireland and Wales are seen as being of lesser importance to the United Kingdom than England (or more specifically the South East of England). Throughout history England has been the oppressive nation to the other three and the current method of governance of this United Kingdom is seen by many to be simply the modern embodiment of that oppression. And before you dismiss this off hand, come and live in Scotland for a few years and look at it from this side of the fence .

There is, unfortunately, no answer. Leaving aside those half baked attempts to appease Scotland and Wales with our respective Parliament and Assembly, there is no getting away with the fact that Parliament’s “home nation” is England. It is therefore quite understandable to expect some perceived bias.

Another difference is that we Scots are fiercely patriotic all the time – 24/7, 365 days of the year. We don’t need an excuse to get the flags out. We celebrate every Scottish National event. Half of England (it seems) don’t even know when St George’s day is. Fewer appear to celebrate it.

And then we have Euro 2004, and all the flags come out, and the strutting, and the posturing and the arrogance is back again. On the TV, on the Radio, in the newspapers….down our throats, whether we like it or not.

For these reasons, and predominantly the perceived arrogance, to fly the St George’s cross in Scotland (either from a car window or, as with my parents neighbours last night, to hang an England flag which fills the living room window) is almost seen as insulting to many Scots. It almost might as well say “F*ck you”

I’ll agree, its not right , but, as I've said above, we are a fiercely patriotic nation rather than part time flag waivers and the depth of feeling exists when its in our own backyard, so to speak.

This is not a comprehensive explanation, just a few pointers thrown together.

Personally, I blame the media and Bannockburn .

Us Scots love our Country. We are, first and foremost Scottish Being British is a very distant second. Our passports would say Scottish if they could

This is not a comprehensive explanation, just a few pointers thrown together, to help explain why most of Scotland is supporting Croatia at Euro 2004

D

RichWalk

I agree about the media, trouble is I believe it has a more detremental effect on our team (esp footie) than most other nations, our media partriotism, seems to be a compensatory frenzy rather than a quiet true belief that other nations exhibit.

Brendan Hughes

That's a long post to justify sulking when you don't qualify.

ajm

LOL!

Diablo

LOL...would have been if I actually liked football

No one sulking here

D

Jer

****Origanally posted in the Scottish forum*******
This sort of thing really pisses me off, I’m Scottish my wife’s English and we visit Liverpool and Lincoln about 6 times a year to visit family. I have been to the pub a few times to watch Scotland games in England and guess what. The English support Scotland when they are playing (well 95% do). When my brother in law comes up here and we go to the pub to watch England play it’s embarrassing. Everyone cheering and laughing when England lose.

pugoetru

I agree with diablo

and i hate football

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

Well put together piece of writing (IMHO!)
But please don't invite anymore of them here
QUOTE "And before you dismiss this off hand, come and live in Scotland for a few years and look at it from this side of the fence "

eClaire

Very well put! couldn't have said it better myself.

Do you think it's worth getting a petition together to allow us to have the option of 'Scottish' as a nationality on our passports?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Nice one Diablo and Jer.

TelBoy

I saw an England flag flying on the aerial of a Renault yesterday.

Faire D'Income

I don't think we're shocked by it anymore and it's not the lack of support that we find distasteful it's the the disturbing level of antipathy directed towards any English team, by the Scots in particular, that annoys us.

Can you explain the arrogance that you perceive because being English I don't see it unless you mean the increased coverage that English teams probably get, that being the case I guess it's to do with the larger population down here.

You'll have to explain what the problem is with the current Government (well, there's heaps to say but restrict it to Scotland) and how you are oppressed.

You've hit the nail on the head there, England has been an oppressive nation over the last few centuries and as a kingdom that has been united this in turn has reflected on the UK which is why we have so many detractors and so many other countries who get so gleeful when we lose at anything. The Aussies can't stand to lose to England because they remember being ruled by the UK and most of the other ex-colonies have a chip on their shoulder for some reason or another and that's just something we have to live with.

You mention Bannockburn, ffs that happened 700 years ago and the Scots still bring it up so it's simply a case of not being able to win regardless of the situation. So we don't bother.

Whilst I agree with you that the English flag has been hijacked we don't whinge about the countless cars that display the Scottish flag - so what's your problem?

TelBoy

Well said FDI, specially the first paragraph.

Jye

The thing is, Scotland is a tiny, tiny, tiny nation, I could even say 'third world' in some respects. So why oh why do the English feel the need to slate such a small nation over a game of football, a nation thats entire population is less than that of London? Why do the English fans sing stuff like " Are You Scotland In Disguise" when they are beating ANY other team? It's obvious that to beat such a small nation is no big deal so why bother? For once it really made me laugh hearing the fans singing " Are You Scotland In Disguise" last night just before they got gubbed

Redkop

Didn't realise 'sheep' were that profilic in Scotland...

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

What gets me is why some poeple will purposely go to a pub to watch a side that they don't support such as England lose

Why? I can understand if it was detrimental to their team progressing in the tournament, but in premlininaries, or when their team has already been knocked out I'm left thinking - are these people really *THIS* sad and pathetic?

I'm not harping on about Scots here, just a general thing. One thing that sticks in my mind is being stuck in a pub full of Irishmen whilst an England game was on last year. Sad pathetic people, not saying Irish are like that...just the ones in that pub!

Jye

Lynne, aint that the Welsh you're thinking of?

<stir, stir>

Jye

BTW all the Scots I know cheer England at rugby all the time. Perhaps it's just a football thing. We should have a UK footie team like rugby.

Brendan Hughes

Eh? We have one Scot saying that they're pissed off that the English get massive coverage and emphasis, and another Scot saying that they're a "tiny, tiny, tiny nation, even third world in some respects".

See, that's the problem with such a low population density. You guys should talk to each other more often.

BTW, I thought the powerhouse of the UK Government at present (PM and Chancellor, and ex-Foreign Sec) are Scottish?

Jye

I'm the voice of reason Brendan

btw, MP's aint even human so they cant be Scottish

eClaire

I was having a conversation with an English friend on MSN last night.

He was telling me how he had a dead leg; I went on to say I bet Zidane had a dead leg after he was tackled in the way that he was and than taking that penalty but you didn't see him whinging about it. He then went on about the English 'kicking our sorry asses all those years ago'.

Blame my attitude on people like him -- Daz34!!!!!

Diablo

And I've just explained why.

Of course you don't see it, you're English. No point trying to explain because you'll never understand, so you'll just have to accept that is how you (as nation) are percieved. See ps lewis's post, that just about sums it up.

Mate, we are talking perception here, not necessarily fact. Unfortunately, perception is reality for most. Westminster was in London the lsat time I checked. Half the MP's give the impression of thinking Scotland doesn't exist.

Bannockburn has more historical significance that England winning the World Cup in 1966, but we have to listed to that all the time..LOL... Its called heritage - something we are very proud of.

Anyway, the Bannockburn comment was a laugh

Em, see most of my post above. What part didn't you understand..LOL...

Look, I'm not trying to justify it, and I agree that the attitudes are, in many cases, wrong - I'm just trying to explain it so you'll all stop complaining that we should be supporting England

Peace brothers (and sisters)

D


PS - Lynne - bugger off

Faire D'Income

Diablo - you should pay more attention to the Google ads at the bottom.

Diablo

Got them switched off mate

D

Redkop

Nope! I mean as in every Scot apparently having the 'same thought'

Jye

I know, hence the <stir>

btw I wanted England to win for what its worth

Redkop

Thank you Jye [if that was sincere]

Jye

Of course it was. I reckon all the recent posts have been in good fun, we do have a sense of humour up here, just hope 'you lot' can see past the banter

Faire D'Income

Yes, you're correct Westminster is in London but what bearing does that have on Scotland and exactly how do MPs give the impression that Scotland doesn't exist?

You have your own Assembly which we don't in England and before you float the idea that Westminster is in London, don't forget that it's full of Welsh and Scottish MPs.

For Scotland, maybe. Personally, I don't see the point in trotting out ancient historical events as a badge of honour when it comes to national rivalry - what are we supposed to do in England, quote War and Peace as we recite every war/battle we've ever won?


You still haven't explained why it's so offensive to display an English flag in Scotland and yet it isn't in England and as I said at the beginning, in general, the English don't mind you not supporting our national teams it's the overbearing negative attitudes towards them that disgusts us.

Redkop

Ask Diablo if I have and can see past the banter