jaycee

I have agroup buy going on at the moment and somebody questioned the legality of the LRC100 so I went and investigated! Below is a copy of what I have posted in the group buy section.
If anybody has anything concrete to back-up the legality I would be very interested to hear.
Maybe some of the police lads who post on here would like to comment on how the police view these devices?

Righty ho then, where shall I start?!!
After a discussion with my solicitor this mornining it would seem the LRC 100 is not a good idea for me to sell or you to buy!

Getting caught using one could leave you open to being charged with "obstructing the police in the course of their duty"
I could also be charged with "attempting to assist a person in obstructing the police in the course of their duty"
Having said that, you can also be charged with the above for flashing your headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a police presence.

After the conversation I pondered his answers and decided to ring the UK supplier of the LRC100. They got their legal representative to call me back and they have a completely different take on it.

They are legal to buy, legal to sell. They are legal to fit to your vehicle. The police are unlikely to prosecute you for using one unless you seriously take the **** ( I didn't realise this was a legal phrase!!) as per a case in Wales where somebody kept speeding past a camera van, the police couldn't get a reading so they pulled him over to investigate.
The DoT don't want people advertising them as laser diffusers but will accept advertising it as a garage door opener with the side effect of disrupting laser guns. (for the time being)

I suppose the upshot is BE CAREFUL! I will happily sell a "Garage door opener" to anyone who wishes to purchase one on the understanding I have no responsibility for what you do with it!!

If the unit is well fitted, ie hidden, then it is unlikely the police would spot it as you drove past and wouldn't have time to give chase and pull your vehicle apart to find it.

I hope this helps because to me it still seems a very grey area and no doubt the law will be changed at some point to make the use of these illegal if they intefere with police guns and the manufacturer will have to amend future garge door opening mechanisms.


Jason

LiamWR1

Jaycee, I asked the same question on the five-o website which you may find of additional interest



http://www.5ive-o.com/web/viewtopic....6ebe7e416906fe

jaycee

Great link Liam, it would appear even the boys on there are split on the legal/illegal argument.
There was also a link to a bbc site for the bloke in Wales who was charged with perverting the course of justice but there was no mention if he was convicted. I took an interesting quote from it
"While the legislation has been passed making it illegal to use radar diffusers, there is currently no legislation in place regarding the laser devices," said John Rowling from the Safety Camera Partnership.
"Although the government are looking at this important issue. The use of such devices is extremely dangerous as it gives the motorist licence to drive at inappropriate speeds, putting the safety of other road users at risk."

That states quite clearly that nothing has been done to make laser diffusers illegal. YET!
My solicitor did say the police would have a nightmare job to prove why the speed gun couldn't get an accurate reading,there could be any number of reasons.

Jason

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Being illegal is one thing and the police having the will to prosecute is another...tooth bleaching is illegal in the UK yet almost every high street dentist does it !!!

Midlife.....

Chelspeed

Radar jammers (not sure where the word diffuser has come from) work by transmitting a radar signal back to the radar gun. This radar signal is a form of electromagnetic radiation, a radio wave. There are all sorts of rules and regulations already in existence about the transmission of unlicensed radio signals. These are laws designed to stop people running pirate radio stations or to stop taxi firms using walkie talkie radios that interefere with police radios or whatever.

When radar jammers appeared on the market, the police just used the existing laws to ban them because they emitted electromagnetic radiation in order to operate and they were by definition not licensed. There is no specific law that says "thou shalt not use a radar jammer to avoid getting caught by a radar gun".

So what does that mean for laser jammers? They work by transmitting a light signal. Are there laws already existing preventing you from broadcasting unlicensed light from the front of your car? Of course not, every car with headlights would be breaking it if there were. So to ban them would require a specific law concerning laser jammers which will be very difficult and time consuming to put together. So the police put round scare stories about perverting the course of justice or whatever.

No doubt if enough people buy them and people use them to avoid getting caught doing 100mph through town etc etc then they will make the effort. Until then don't worry about it, they are discrete enough not to be noticeable until used, and if you need to use it then it's proved itself to my way of thinking. If you don't want to take the risk then stay under the limit, even the recent spate of stupidly low inappropriate limits, and you'll be equally OK.

LiamWR1

The lottery of life...... Pay ya money, way up the risks & take ya chances

billythekid

To sell : Legal
To buy : Legal
To fit : Legal
To use, to prevent a speed reading being taken : Illegal

I know there have already been 2 successful convictions in the UK.

I have stopped a few cars in the past for speeding with them fitted and the owners were unaware that if they were caught using the device then they can be prosecuted.

So - you have no problem selling and your group buyers have no problem buying, its just the using bit that could cause a problem

Jiggerypokery

I think if you were travelling at 50+ with a lot of traffic around it would be highly unlikely that a copper would chase after you or even pull you over just because he couldn't get one reading on his gun. It can't be that easy to fix onto a moving reflective surface and get a reading, first time, every time. Once you hear the warning, slow down (if you happen to be going too fast), in any case you should switch it off when back under the limit, then a reading can be taken.

p1doc

i nearly bought one then a friend told me about someone in carlisle who passed police 3 times in 1 month ,each time the police could not register his speed so after 1 month they went to his address as they wrote down his no plate each time he passed (presumably to ensure he was a regular offender rather than a machine error) CONFISCATED his car for 2 months found the jammer and he is being charged with perverting the course of justice 3 times!!
i know where i live the roads are jammed with hidden police so the above is feasible-this put me right off the laser jammer as if you do not have a door opener why else would you have one fitted
martin

kob999

Most are also laser detectors and have an ato switch off function after say 5 secs. So when the alarm sounds you should immediately slow down and switch unit off. This will allow police to get a reading and is much less suspicous as mentioned in previous threads it is not unusual for severl attempts to be required to get a reading.
2 people prosecuted in the entire UK is not much. As long as you don't treat it as a licence to speed past cameras then your chances of being caught are slim

scoobydooooo

does the unit have to be switched on to get prosecuted or is that a bit of a grey area ?

rotty

AFAIK , neither of the two arrests led to a conviction

billythekid

The 2 I know of, both in the same force area, both were convicted of obstruct police.

Its your call if you want to run the risk, I personally would not bother as there is too much risk involved. For the sake of 3 points and £60 fine!

If you are intending to go out and drive at speeds which will lead to bans on a regular basis then you need to consider things rather carefully, a coffin is a fairly long term thing...

Jasoon

Wasn't the guy in Carlisle's jammer one that fired all the time so no reading could be taken where as the LRC100 switches off after something like 5 seconds ,so a reading can be obtained

Jasoon

don't think the guy in Carlisle was using a LRC 100 think it was ether an early one or another make

FrenchBoy

AFAIK The LRC100 when used on its own will continue to jam the signal until you turn it off.

Its only when used in conjunction with the Origin B2 unit (there may be others that do this too) that it will switch off after 5 seconds.

The responsible way to use them is to let them alert you to an attempt to read your speed, immediately make sure you are travelling at a legal speed then make sure the unit is turned off to allow a reading to be taken.

If you are being targetted by a mobile laser van, the fat council employed **** in the back isnt going to do anything about it. If you are travelling on a busy road and get targetted by the filth, as long as the police officers get a reading its unlikely that they will be bothered to give chase to investigate.

if you use the unit to drive at irresponsible speeds in inappropriate areas, then you are likely to draw unwanted (and probably deserved) attention to yourself.

as ever this is just my humble opinion.

homer lawtey

Unlikely, as speed traps aren't positioned in appropriate positions. The majority of motorists obey the speed limits as a minimum around schools, hospitals and built up areas. There's no money to be made in these areas, that's why there's no cameras.

pbee

Frenchboy, I have a LRC100 fittted without it being connected to either a B2 or a roadangel.

The unit can only fire for 5 secounds regardless of what it is connected too. It then requires a further 60 secounds to cool down and recharge itself before it is ready to fire again.

of course you can turn the unit off before the 5 secounds is up.

There are 2 alarm modes a high pitch alrm during the diffusing 5 secounds and then a lower pitch noise if you are still being targetted but not being diffused after the 5 secounds.

I used to live next door to a traffic cop, and he tested my unit after it was fitted, he told me the errors on the gun where exactly the same if you missed a flat part of the car and happens enough times anyway to not cause suspicion, but of course if a policemen can target your car 3 or 4 times within 5 seconds then it could arose suspicion if he could get no reading at all. Not to sure what could be done about it legally. The device itself isnt illegal if they made light transmission illegal, every ir device in the uk would be scuppered. but using it in this way could be illegal. he had 2 guns in his car a handheld lti20-20 and a box thing on a tripod with a printer. It jammed both and one of them had a jammer light which do not seem to work against the lrc-100.

oh yeah, he was so impresssed he was buying one for his own car !!!.

FrenchBoy

pbee,

thats more info than anyone has been able to give me about the LRC 100 (including the people i was thinking of getting one from)

cheers!!

Neil Smalley

If the person operating the laser gun is'nt a police officer(I.e a civilian in a talivan) then how can one be done for obstructing a police officer etc etc?

catalunya199again

what is the price for a new one

jaycee

You must've been going to buy it from the wrong place!

Jason

billythekid

I am aware of a case like this, in Wales (theres a shock). The charge was perverting the course of justice instead. Hope that helps.

Neil Smalley

Which was dropped by the CPS because they could'nt prove he was speeding and therefore no offense to pervert.

Jasoon

You might find the ones operating the speed vans at the moment are police on O/T

hedgehog

It is my understanding that you could be done for obstructing police or perverting the course regardless of the legality of the device you use to achieve these ends. I know one person who was done for obstructing police because he flashed his lights at oncoming motorists to warn of a tax collecting entrapment. Having headlights is certainly not illegal.

You must realise that this is a major revenue stream for police, magistrates and the government and there is no way you are going to get away with blocking it. The fact that the scamers current ignore your right to silence and your right not to incriminate yourself, fundamental human rights, would indicate to me that they are not going to let minor points of law interupt their persecution of motorists.

My guess is that we will see them wait until laser jammers are having a significant impact upon their revenue stream at which point they will have a "crack down" and people using them will find themselves in court. In my area they are currently doing this with motorists flashing their lights to warn of an entrapment site and police are positioning themselves a short distance up and down the road from the camera position, usually behind a hedge or wall, ready to jump out on anyone who dares to warn another driver of the presence of the camera. Needless to say such behaviour is doing a lot to improve relations between the police and the community.

It seems likely to me that the courts would view charges of obstructing police or perverting the course of justice in a very dim light and would consider them more serious than speeding. People may be successful, on occasions, in defending the charges but my guess is that the expense was considerable.

With this in mind I would encourage everyone to keep fighting the camera scam in every way possible but I would urge caution.

big500

There seems to be a little confusion going on about the LRC100 , legalities licences and offences. The Home Office controls the licensing of frequencies. Both the police laser guns ( Pro Laser 2) and the " Community Speed Vans" have a laser system . The wavelength of the laser light used on these devices is 904nM and it is licesed by the H.O. Forget the vans for a second , the LRC100 was designed to evade proscecution for speeding when targetted by a police officer using a laser type of gun , the earlier speedguns e.g. HR8 used a Radar system in the X K and KU bands.The problem with this system was due to the power output of the laser guns there was a lot of spurious signal that could be picked up more then 1000 metres away from the target area , hence the birth of the original "radar detectors". If you had one fitted in your car when you approached the trap you would receive enough notice in advance to slow down and hence smile at the constable as you passed. Laser devices however have a specific target area and can lock the speed of a vehicle in 100ms ( a tenth of a second) unfortnately even the sharpest of us humans can only react in about twice this time!Hence the birth of devices like the target LRC100. The unit has a laser reciever diode that looks for laser light at the specific frequency , if it detects it then it emits a modulated output from its laser transmitter diodes. The unit operates for 5 seconds to give the driver ample time to slow down to a speed within the legal limit. Then the unit turns itself off so the speedevice CAN get a reading which should be within the limit hence not arousing suspicion.The camera vans use the same technology hence the LRC100 will defend against them too. Local authorities set up the camera vans which are now manned by trained civilians. The vans record vehicles travelling on a targetted piece of road. The laser unit mounts above the video camera and superimposes the exact speed of the vehicle on the video tapes which are reviewed later.Remenber the vans can now monitor the speed oif vehicles travelling in BOTH directions on the targetted area of road.You can also be nicked for speeding if a police officer (competant person) thinks you are speeding !

Steve

p.s. any one know where I can buy the receiver kit that works on 904nM for my garage door ?

Brian the Sn@il

some great input there,

I only use mine as payback !!!

Sitting on a long straight of Dual Carrigeway in a speed camera van, picking off motorists that want to ge to the next meeting on time, maybe going 85mph !!!!
is not on !!!

Ok in a built up area where there are accident blackspots but i have never seen one there ???

They are always on a long stretch of main road to Garrenttee a good taking on speeders who SAFELY SPEED on a straight section of dual carrigeway !!!

They dont play fair - I dont play fair !!

jaycee

£265 inc P&P.

Jason