Geezer

....the terrorists who hacked off the head of an American businessman openly in revenge for abuse/murder of Iraqi prisoners, or the so called free and good democractic army who tortured and killedprisoners of war in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention to which they supposedly hold dear, and then attempt to deny it/cover up until the evidence is leaked out accidentally so they have to admit it and then have a kangaroo court for show.

What a sad and terrible situation this has degraded into. Both sides have reached a new low, where is it going?

Geezer

ProperCharlie

that is just what i was thinking last night. the "coalition" has reached an impasse: there is no real hope of restoring law and order in iraq, much less democarcy. the longer they stay there, the more troops will get killed and the more opportunities there will be for fundamentalists to carry out sickening "revenge" acts like this one. however, politically it is impossible to simply pack up and go home, and admit it was all a terrible mistake.

Mark Miwurdz

It's very smelly and it's going nowhere. I was implacably opposed to the war with Iraq, not because I have any pacifist leanings but because it was never going to solve anything. Urban geurilla warfare now prevails and as many trouble spots round the world (Northern Ireland included) will testify, a satisfactory conclusion is going to be very difficult to achieve indeed.

It's apparant that nobody thought this situation through to its natural conclusion. Whilst they may admire their own lifestyle and standards, the Iraqis do not understand, nor do they want to conform to anything that the Americans hold dear. As the 30th June deadline approaches, it's hard to see how the coalition can hand back the country to the Iraqis with things the way they are.

I still think Blair's allegiance to Bush in this whole debacle will prove to be his downfall.

Cheers
Kav

Scooby96

Martial Law for years to come

CrisPDuk

If you invade a country to 'liberate' it's mineral wealth, you have no right to expect the population of that country to sit back & take it. Especially if your invading/occupying troops are conditioned through training to consider any foreigner as less than human.

Freak

They were prisoners of war.
In exactly the same way the US has taken prisoners, the enemy has every right to do so in return. You invade someone, they arent just going to sit back and do nothing- they have the right to defnd themselves.
Beheading is accepted in their culture as a sentence- the US may not like it but thats the way it is.
You cant invade a country and them try and impose your beliefs/morals/cultural standards on them- it just wont work.

Apparition

Well said Freak. Sad truth but true....... as the man says, the truth always hurts.
Basically it comes down the evilest of all beings being at the root of this problem....... MAN.

Mitchy260

Ive come across the link to this video and ive just watched it. Someone on cliosport had found it.

I'll never watch it again, it makes you cringe as you hear him scream for his life. i was truelly shocked and i myself am in the UK forces getting ready to go out there. It really does make you think.

Its very gruesome so im not so sure if i should post the link!

Freak

Can you Pm me the link- im intrigued (as im sure a lot of people are)
Not in a sick way- but curiosity and the cat etc....

Mitchy260

Ive decided to post the link as we are all grown up adults. I will however warn you the video is gruesome and shocking. I myself never want to see it again. You have been warned!!

[Link removed]

unclebuck

Frankly, it doesn't help having Amnesty International stirring up hatred against British Forces with their politically correct bleatings.

That website is a disgrace BTW - always has been.

UB

jasey

Geezer - watch the video - it will answer your question !

Freak

messiah

...or the daily mirror for printing a load of photoshopped crap that drops our boys in the ****. Stuff like that should have been kept until after the armed forces had pulled out (its only a few weeks away FFS). Instead they show the Iraqi's what's supposedly going on. And from a nice and safe 2000 miles away. F***ing Tabloid scum.

Mitchy260

Unclebuck....I totally agree with you mate. Sites like that should be investigated and shut down. For respect to the guy's family at least

Mark Miwurdz

Couldn't agree more but:

- Newspaper owners are only interested in selling more copies
- I wouldn't be surprised if the coalition still has a presence in Iraq a year from now.

What a colossal ****-up.

Cheers
Kav

Mitchy260

Mark......From the grapevine i can assure you troops will be there until at least 2007/2008. Trust me i know! If not fighting a war, but for Peace keeping duties.

All you need to do is look at N.Ireland and Kosovo..........We are still peacekeeping there.

ozzy

In respect to the guy and his family, can you remove the link to that site? Yes, we're all grown-ups but no one should be given a choice in seeing that video IMHO.

Stefan

unclebuck

Too right. Children can access this forum.

Mark Miwurdz

Quite right and this is the legacy that the people in charge should have considered before the invasion.

Cheers
Kav

Mitchy260

Its shocking and if a couple more say delete it, i will. The choice is already there though, we are all on the web and we can all easily do a google search for it.

I have warned people before posting the link. You have the choice not to download the shocking clip.

unclebuck

Well, I suppose in a way it's a 'good thing' to see it. If there were any doubt's about who holds the moral high ground in this conflict, then that settles it once and for all.

UB

Mitchy260

I couldnt agree more. The UK/US would never do anything like that, it shows what the boys out there have to deal with.

Jye

Just watched it, absolutely, completely horrific, that people can do this to another human being makes me despair for the whole human race. I think being humiliated in prison should be the least of the Iraqis worries with people like this alive and well in Iraq.

Regarding the goings on in the prisons etc, thats the problem now-a-days, you cant even fight a war without the frigging media fu*king it up for everyone

SiPie

Agree 100%

66 Blue

They shouldn't have gone to war in the first place!! there are no WMD the whole thing is bull$hit....
tortureing those iraqi prisoners was trully a shocking crime to commit!!! whats the big deal if one yank gets killed ******* loads of iraqis have been killed...
an eye for an eye I say...
if someone beat the **** out of you family would you not want to do the same to the culprit??

Geezer

I have just watched it. Horrific, truly horrific. It was interesting to read the post on who holds the moral high ground though. This disgusts us because we can see it, but that does not make an act of barbarism any less repugnant because we cannot.

The torture or murder of prisoners by any side is unacceptable, the fact that one side trumpets it, the other side carries it out surrepticously(sp?) are just two sides of the same coin. What is worse? Open barbarism, or preaching high moral values whilst behaving like animals. I don't know, both are equally repugnant to me.

The Yanks certainly like their dirty wars, don't they?

Geezer

MJW

Well you can fight a war, but its the attaching electrodes to peoples ********* and setting dogs on unarmed prisoners which is kind of f**king it up for everyone, not the reporting of such stories.
As for the 'moral high ground' there never was, is, or will be any moral high ground - both sides are just as bad as each other. The execution of Nick Berg was truly barbaric, but no more barbaric than shooting an 8-year old girl in the stomach.

Jye

Cutting someones throat, very slowly with a knife while they are still alive, and then taking a further 30 seconds to finish this barbaric act would seem to me to be far worse than anything that has ever happened to Iraqi prisoners or civilians. When people recieve this 'punishment' in the Arab world it is carried out swiflty by an executioner with a large sword. I find it hard to believe that anything even remotely as inhuman as this act has has ever been carried out by coalition forces and I'm deffo no fan of our lot.