Pistol_Pete

Hi,
Last year my son was born and I would like to get a few bottles of 2003 vintage to keep for his 18th birthday. Only one problem, I have no idea what wines will keep for that long. Has anyone got any suggestions or tips on this ?
I presume that storage wise the best place to store the wine will be in a cool dark place (we are back to the cellar topic on another thread)
Thanks for any advice.

Pete

David Lock

I don't claim to be a wine buff (though I drink a lot of it ) but I thought the traditional "long term" answer was to get a couple of cases of Port. I guess you would have to wait a year or two before you can purchase the 2003. A guy in a decent wine store should be able to tell you if 2003 was a good year and offer advice in this area including storage. Mind you Port will probably be banned in 2021 under some EC regulation

ProperCharlie

Not sure if 2003 was a vintage year for port - vintage port is only produced in favourable years.

Basically there are 2 sorts of wines that will keep for 20 years plus:

Top Bordeaux and top Chateauneufs.

2003 was a good year for both these wines. Unfortunately, a first growth bordeaux will set you back big bucks, and will be hard to get hold of. Your best bet might be to go for a case of a very good chateauneuf du pape like Ch. Beaucastel. I know someone who sells this so PM me if you want details.

Old_Fart

2003 was an incredible year for Bordeaux (damn was it hot out there), but this is reflected in the prices already. A very good site for wine buying is www.bbr.co.uk Most of the stuff you want won't have been released as yet, you buy it 'in bond' and take delivery if you want on release. Home cellaring can be hit and miss...you could always get a good wine merchant to store for you..this will maximise the investment potential also as, if you want to sell in 20 years time, a good 'service history' is important.
Wines which are expected to cellar reliably for 18 years tend to be expensive though...otherwise it can be hit and miss.
I'm not a snob though so I've recently been buying some Aussie stuff through Tesco in their sale with an aim to cellaring, Penfolds 389, 707, RWT and Grange (£11, £30, £20 and £80 a bottle), but not the 2003 vintage...as a guide to what a good year can do though...the '97 Grange is usually around £115 a bottle and that was a 'good' vintage, the '98 is double that price as it's considered 'great', so prestigous French wines for 2003 will be pricey!
Basically though you will not be able to take delivery of any 2003 vintage wine worth cellaring for another year or so, and when you can they will be expensive, so best to order a case now in bond.
Rgds
Chuck

kend

Wine from 2003 which will be good enough to keep for 20 years won't be in bottles yet.
You will be able to buy 'En-primeur' from a wine merchant, that is to but wine which hasn't been bottled yet, and for them to deliver / store it once t is bottled. You will only be able to buy in this way in cases of 12.

If you want to wait until it is actually in bottles, for stuff good enough to keep 20 years, you'll probably be looking at 2005-6 before it's on the market.

I use Berry Brothers as my wine merchant ( BBR.com) and there is a good explanantion of this on their site, along with predictions of when stuff will be at its best / keep until

Old_Fart

The Beaucastle will be lovely...but an average vintage costs a good £30 a bottle plus doesn't it? I have to drink the Cadoulet d Beaucastle (half the price and 90% the quality)
Rgds
Chuck

ProperCharlie

O_F - Coudoulet is very good value - i'm drinking it while i wait for the Beaucastel to mature.

Can't remember what i paid for 2000 and 2001 Beaucastel, but i think it was under £20 a bottle in bond.

Old_Fart

I've never bought in bond, being 'new money' I've been playing catch-up and trying to get drinkable stuff in now. Also I always get the 'le' 'el' screwed up due to being a stupid englishman
Have you had the '01 Cadoulet Beau Blanc? Damn tasty, great value.
(The '00 and '01 you mention above seem to be trading around £50 retail these days..good for you!)
C

RichWalk

From what I know you are going to struggle price wise to get wine that lasts that long, a decent Premier or Grand Cru, Bordeaux or Burgandy will lay down well for 10 years or more, however until the vintage of 2003 is actually proven over time to be worthly of waiting that long you as with all good wine are taking a risk- buy yourself a wine guide and look for the best makers, not just the best regional names eg a premier cru from a lesser grower is less likely to mature as well as from a recognised expert grower- as will all things, up to a point you get what you pay for! If you do buy make sure the wine is kept laid down in a dark place at a consistent temperature (less than 20 degrees?) otherwise your potential purchase could well end up in the bin when you open it!

ProperCharlie

Never tried the white coudoulet - i'll have to have a word with my broker and see if he can get me some

i've only been buying wine for a few years, but if you have the patience it makes a lot of sense to buy in bond or en primuer (sp?), as you can buy wines at a considerable discount over what they will cost a few years down the line. basically, a good friend of mine is a wine dealer, and he just tells me what he thinks is worth buying and then gets it for me. so i'm really getting the benefit of his knowledge, rather than actually knowing all that much about wine myself - other than how to drink it

Brendan Hughes

(Another depressing thread on scoobynet... wish these people could stop wining....)

ProperCharlie

eh?

Martin J Stirling

One important factor that will influence how long a wine will keep, is how well it is stored.

The most important thing for a wine is to keep it at a constant 'cool' temperature, ideally in a cellar or temp controlled wine cabinet. I made the mistake of buying some expensive Shiraz which had a recommended storage life of 10 years. After 4 years of patience I opened a bottle, only to find that the cork had dried slightly, thus shrinking slightly and allowing air into the bottle. The wine was undrinkeable, and I found that the whole case was the same.

Corks are very temperature sensitive, and the thing that they hate most is central heating and air conditioning, both of these can ruin a cork and hence the wine!

Storing wine for 18 years is gonna be a huge gamble, and without proper storing, you'll never do it..

Good luck.

Mart.

ProperCharlie

i'll be happy to look after people's wine in my cellar. there may be a few bottles missing when you come to get it back, though.

ProperCharlie

seriously - the best thing to do is buy the wine in bond and keep it in the bonded warehouse until you want to drink it. the storgae costs will be more than offset by the appreciation the the value of the wine, and the knowledge that it won't be fooked when you open the bottle.

RichWalk

Just have a look at BBR.com as mentioned, looks like the Bordeaux Ch.Latour,Pauillac's are going to be superb, for Burgandy, I would go for (once proven) a Grand Cru Chambertin by Armand Rousseau, I drink his Gevrey version and its the best red I have ever tasted IMHO of course......

ProperCharlie

Rich - aren't those wines gonna cost in the region of £1k a case?

RichWalk

More like £300-400 each mate! If your going to take it seriously and you want a special day its worth it!

Old_Fart

*PAH*, Pistol Pete's kid is worth that, easy! Plus the profit made on a case in 18 years should pay for a term's worth of further education. What a great 18th for the little Derringer.
Rgds
C

Old_Fart

Costco selling 94 Petrus for £330 a bottle. Group buy?( not the greatest vintage mind!)
C

ProperCharlie

hhmmm... don't think i'll beputting them on my shopping list, then.

RichWalk

PC if you want to try top wine at more sensible prices, get a bottle of 97 1er Cru of Gevrey Chambertin by someone like Dennis Mortet, cost you £50+ a bottle and ready to drink now to 2006 ish.

ProperCharlie

I have some '99 Richbourg, made by AF Gros AFAICR. Not ready to drink yet, but should be good in a few years. Burgundy isn't really my thing, although i do like it occasionally. Also picked up some nice chassagne montrachet whites when i was there last year.

RichWalk

Montachet; very nice, certainly one of my favourite whites, not tried Richbourg though.

ProperCharlie

Rich - the seller sent me this blurb at the time:

also aquired some Louis Jadot, Echézeaux Grand Cru 1999 at the same time. blimey - i'd forgotten all about that! just hope my brother hasn't drunk it.

RichWalk

Thanks for that PC; I'll keep my eyes open for a bottle

Pistol_Pete

Thanks a lot for the replies people, made some interesting reading.

The wine is to be consumed, so I am not worried about the value / profit side of it. Although there is a nice return obviously to be made if you know what you are doing.

I will have a look at bbr.com and see what I can learn from there.

once again, thanks a lot everyone.

ProperCharlie

Pete - if you want to get hold of Beaucastel 2003, talk to james at www.bigredwine.co.uk

however, it won't be available for another year or so. shouldn't set you back as much as Latour etc will.

TopBanana

Top tip: Beer is cheaper

Jerome

LOL. Am I the only person who got this?