Franx

As the thing says. I'm wondering about getting into this, as i'm about to finish uni, and could perhaps do a PGCE next year, with the intention of being a senior school teacher eventually, allthough I wouldn't mind doing something else first.
Anyone been there? What's the pay like? Is it worth it?

tallsteve

Hi, Am doing a PGCE at the moment and it's quite a bit of work but does give you a good idea of what to expect in schools. If you are planning on teaching a shortage subject (Sciences, Maths, Computing) you can get a "Golden Hello" after completing 1 year in a Secondary School.

Pay for newly trained teachers is about 18K, 20K in London - but you can get extra money if you have relevant experience in the real world.

I spent 7 weeks teaching IT in an all boys London school and really enjoyed it - yes, you do get attitude problems and a bit of mouth, but if you stick to your guns you can get through to them.

I say go for it, most PGCE courses are only a year and you'll know by the end of the course if you're cut out for it.

Good luck!

Steven

ProperCharlie

my missus has been a teacher for about 7 years (secondary school, comprehensive). she was on a fairly decent wage (£30K+) before she went on maternity leave. it's not a bad job but it it is tough. she works long hours during term time and is always doing admin, marking, preparation etc during holidays. the kids can be totyal b*stards at times, she's had her mobile nicked twice. she found it very hard in her first year, but it did seem to get a bit easier as she became more experienced. you need to be committed to do it, but if you are i think it is very worthwhile.

BexTait

this gives some info. I'm also thinking of going in to teaching when I graduate, but I've still got time to decide (not even finished first year yet!)

pslewis

Good way to earn a living - the new workload agreement takes away the admin part of teaching - no more photocopying or stuff like that.

Wages are superb, start at about £20k but rapidly move up the increments to about £28k. Retention and Recruitment allowances of £1500 plus management allowance of up to £10500 in ADDITION to the standard teachers wage!

Assistant Heads get around £43k, Deputies get around £50k and Heads upwards of £70k.

Heads of Departments, say Head of Science? get around £40k.

Never believe a Teacher who says they are badly paid - if they are then there is a REAL reason why they are ..... any Teacher who is any good get richly rewarded financially - plus, of course, the working hours are superb!

Go for it!

Pete

ProperCharlie

what are those funny specs you have on, Pete?

oh - the rose tinted ones - how could i not realise?

i agree with what you say about the pay, though. the old argument "if i had gone into the commercial sector i would be getting twice this wage" just isn't true anymore.

scoobypreza

I did a PGCE. They cram as much as they can during the year. Well in my experience at least! It was quite a contrast to my degree...far more intense.
I found being on school practice far more valuable than any time at uni. You also learn so much from the teachers you will be observing.
I was gutted cos the year after I finished they introduced the grants for trainee teachers. I just missed out by a few months ggrrr. Could have done with it I'm still paying off loans now!

PSLewis....any chance of a job in your school??? Sounds lovely!!!

I work in a village primary school. The number of children in the area has been declining steadily over the last few years. Job prospects here are not good so many young people move away and start their families elsewhere.
As a result our school is having a funding crisis. We had one member of staff made redundant last year and the same could be happening next year. My LEA had to force 50 redundancies across my county last year and didn't replace several retired teachers. The whole area is massively under funded.
As a result our school is trying to save money where ever it can. So we have large mixed classes. But if you are thinking of secondary that wouldn't be an issue.

As for pay .... I'm head of department and also have several subject responsibilities but I don't get paid any additional increments. I'm slowly moving up the basic main pay scale. I'm sure if I moved to a city school I'd get paid a more.
Starting salary at the moment is £18,105.
The pay scales have recently been changed with the aim of achieving higher pay scale faster it used to take 9years to get to £26k. Its better now you can earn £26,460 after 6 years.
There is a new upper pay scale that you have to apply for but I think they are about to freeze the two top points of this scale so the top will be less. I'm not sure what's happening there but I've not been teaching long enough for that yet, but no doubt it will change again by the time I have to apply!
If you have a look at the teaching union websites all the pay scales are illustrated there. National Teaching Union

I have yet to see any sign of this admin agreement!!
Must depend on the area and school.
There isn't any money at our school to employ anyone to take over admin duties so we do our own. To be honest that's the same for all the local schools.
I don't see that changing for a long time. But like I said I think it all depends on the area you chose to work in.
I'm sure there are attractive salary packages to be had if you look around the different LEA websites you might get some idea of what areas are offering relocation packages. (Maybe I should look myself!!! I know I could earn more if we moved)

I love my job and find I get great job satisfaction.
There are downsides with every job and as Proper Charlie says there are demands of marking, planning, reports etc that can take over your life. I wont go on about it but it is a lot of work but you just get on with it. I think its tougher when you work in a smaller school because there aren't as many teachers to share the work load.
Secondary school might be better than primary because at least there you will be focusing on your own subject. You would have some non contact time at secondary level. That doesn't happen in primary schools.

So my tip is to make more money than me you need to get a job in a good school that can afford to pay responsibility points and can afford admin support and non contact time!

Good luck what ever you decide
cath
mrs.scoobypreza

Dream Weaver

Yeah right!!

Not a job I could do - you need to be 110% comitted to it.

andrewdelvard

Oh yeah??
Lets see now...My partner Rachel gets up at 7am to be in her primary school for 8am.
Lessons end for lunch at 12:15pm. She gets about 15 mins to eat her sandwiches and grab a drink. She'll then carry on until about 6pm. She'd stay longer but the caretaker kicks the teachers out. She comes home, eats and I guess carrys on working for about another 1.5hrs.
Thats Mon-Fri.
Saturday she'll put another few hours in but this will be mixed with buying items she needs for lessons from bookshops and 'toys r us' Staples, etc etc .
Sunday she'll spend about 6hrs planning for the next weeks lessons.
Ofsted (and what a facade and a load of crap that is) is visiting in a couple of weeks and those hours have just gone up loads.
But what about the holidays? Lets knock that one on the head. They don't get the same holidays. So much of that holiday time is taken up with preparation for the next term, mixed with training and preparing the classroom.
She has no complaints about the pay. Loves the children dearly. Doesn't complain about the hours. But does get really pissed with remarks along the lines of ..."yeah but you start at 9 and finish before 4".
Today teaching has no comparison withe the education so many of us received. The standard has gone up 100%. If anyone wishes to cast aspersions, doubt that, fine. But you don't know what you are talking about.
Being a teacher is a vocation. Not just a job. You have to love children, want to be with children and really think that you can make a difference.
If you have the character to stimulate and the patience of Job, go for it.

Dream Weaver

Well said Andrew, that working week sounds exactly like my missus's

She works harder than me, and Iwork hard these days

Franx

Right. Thanks for that. Given me something to think about anyway.
I think I might just go for that. I read a thing somewhere about 'fast track' schemes, whereby you get an accelerated training scheme, and financial rewards etc, although I don't know the details yet.
I would get into teaching senior geography, although I do have relevant coaching qualifications in quite a few sports - does anyone know if this makes a difference to pay scales etc? I imagine you would get paid the same rates for extra-curricular activities etc? or what? or does it just make it easier to get a job?
Thanks for the info

Franx

I'm thinking I'll probably do a PGCE anyway, and see what I think at the end of it, as you said. I was thinking it'd be useful either way - there are still jobs in education for the likes of the National Trust and so on, so I'm not forced to go into teaching, although I think it's certainly a good thing to do, and worthwhile at that.
How does one find out the best places for certain subjects at PGCE level? I heard that different places were good for different things, but is this made clear in the prospectus?
Thanks again.
C.

ScoobyDoo555

Just having one today at my college - I'm a lecturer (so more money & less hours - KIDDING!!!)

It's the educational equivalent of having major dentistry without any anasthetic....

The paperwork takes the p1ss and the stress from this has nearly ruined my homelife And for what? To tell me something I already knew and my results proved Pah!

My PGCE was a piece of cake - it's much easier to to it if you've got some real-world experience, as it gives you a different perspective on the Education system.

Personally, I found the PCGE pretty much a waste of time. The only thing it did was quantify what I was already doing in classes. I was nice to see that there was a reason why I was doing something.

However, that it for FE and HE. Secondary school stuff - my hat goes off to you all. RESPECT!!!! I couldn't do it. My sister does it and I hear the same tales of woe regarding workload.

My college work isn't too bad, purely because my subject specialism is also my hobby, so I'm constantly using it

So, deffo think about a PGCE, but the main thing is SERIOUSLY consider which Uni you do it at/through. The quality does differ drastically.

HTH

Dan

ProperCharlie

no - these just come as part of the package. don't think that there's such thing as overtime in the teacher's world.

Franx

I'm going to an information thing about it tonight, so there may be something useful there. I suppose the best thing to do, would be to see what comes of that, then find out the best place to do the PGCE.

BexTait

Let me know where they suggest as a good training place, cos if I go in to teaching when I graduate, it'll be econdary geography.

andrewdelvard

I recently set up my own company. At this stage I'm working lots of hours but because I'm a sole trader have to get used to the idea that the only person to motivate me, is me. There's no one there to crack the whip.
So, when I get a little lazy think to myself "oh I'll just do it tomorrow" I think of my Rachel. She sets the standard. I just think to myself "If she can do it so can I".

lozzaloz

As an ex primary teacher I would say:

1. The PGCE is bloody hard work
2. Working conditions are not great but are generally perceived to be better in secondary schools because you get free periods in which to do some of your huge workload of planning preparation and marking etc.
3. Pay and career prospects will also be better in secondary schools because there are normally more options for progression, e.g. heads of year, subject etc, whereas in primaries they are normally smaller and everyone has to muck in more with only a few on any leadership or management points. As an experienced teacher I used to be head of three subjects in my primary and was on an extra management pay point of 1500 or something, which I had to make a special request to be considered for due to the massive workload in implementing the new Literacy Strategy a few years ago. I was the only person to get any responsibility money except for the Head and Deputy of course.
4. IT IS VERY HARD WORK. Teaching is not for the faint hearted and I would think that behaviour and motivation etc would be less good in secondary than in primary.

That's my two penneth anyway.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'm an ex-teacher too, shortage subject, (physics and maths) secondary.

I'm out now, walked away from it after 26 years, and am now HGV. Haven't had a single truck tell me to F-off since I left. Funny, that.

A friend who is still "in" used to say, ruefully, "If I did a murder, I'd be out in 15 years or so. Here, I've got a real life sentence."

Stresses are enormous, from total t*sser heads, to stroppy parents, to w*nker colleagues, to un-motivated kids, to useless advisers, to ofsted, to stupid arrogant governors.

And EVERYONE you meet thinks THEY could do the job, in fact, they think anyone could, and they ALL mention your long holidays. I get more time to myself now than I ever did teaching.

I'd have one word of avice to anyone thinking of taking up teaching:

DON'T!!!

Alcazar

Freak

i did a primary pgce- it is a several year course crammed into one mega intense year.
I actually was on whats called the 'pgce flexible'- which is spread over 2 years and designed for people with children or heavy work commitments (there were only 4 out of 100 people allowed to do this 2 year course tho so dont get your hopes up)

At the time i was doing my pgce primary, my girlfriend was doing her pgce secondary- the courses are totally different to one another.
Primary pgce you spend about 14 weeks in school (split into 3,3, and 8 week blocks) and the rest doing lectures and assignments- for the secondary, you are in school for practically the whole year. This is because for primary you have to teach the lot- and the lecture time is heavy to prepare you for all subjects, rather than secondary where it is just one or two subjects.

You can do a primary pgce with pretty much any degree, for secondary you need something specific

Its a nightmare- you wont have much social life for the year, the work load is so over emphasised and exagerrated in comparison to when you are a proper teacher- you get about 10 times as much paperwork as you would do for real (unless its offsted week )
I know this as my mother is a teacher and has been for many years, and is also a mentor in her school for pgce students. I get to see a direct comparison in this respect

Its hard being talked down to by f*ckwit lecturers who havent been near a classroom in years and have an 'i know it all' complex... quality quote from one of the senior staff at my pgce college-
"Children dont want to misbehave- they want to be quiet and learn" haha.

I loved working with the kids- it was the rest of the staff and the college staff who did my nut.

its not about the teaching at all- its all about the paperwork and other useless crap.

You will know by the end of your first teaching block in school whether you are cut out for it

Anyone who says its easy, or great because of the long holidays etc- you are living in a dream world.
The pay is f*ck all compared to the stress, workload and other assorted crap you get- especially the pathetic pay for a newly qualifed teacher,

When(if) you pass the pgce, you have to do your NQT (newly qualified teacher) year ( and possibly first proper year- cant remember at the mo) within a set number of years , otherwise its basically useless and you have to do it again should you ever want to start teaching again.

Dont do as some people i know did- go into just wanting the cash- it wont work. Drop out rate is quite high too on the course - seem to remember being told it was 25% or something, possibly higher.

Pslewis once again talking the most phenomenal amount of bull****- go change your colostomy bag


/waffle

Franx

Ta very much
I've a feeling I might be better coming back to it next year. I'd still like to do it, but I heard it was a little late for applying for secondary PGCE in geography this year. Not too late, but I don't think I'd lose anything by gaining a bit of experience of the world first. You never know - something else might come up. I'll teach the next sailing season, and do a few things like that....join the ranks of the unemployed etc etc.
In some ways, I'd rather just get straight into it, but I've had so many ideas for jobs over the last months, I could do to consider whether it's really what I'm wanting to do. I think it's partly due to my degree course - geography, which is among the more vague, in terms of jobs. It covers a huge number of things, but not always in much detail.

Dream Weaver

Join the club mate - been a sole trader for 2 years now. Have had too much on for the last 3 months so been working very hard.

Things have quietened down now (which brings the new worry of getting new work in), but at least i can chill for a while whilst we move house.

The motivation and discipline get much better the more you work for yourself.