Edcase

Just awoke to find amongst the Christmas cards a lovely speeding ticket.

I was somewhat surprised as generally keep my speed in check except for b roads and obviously the racetrack, and couldn't remember being flashed / spotting any cars.

Imagine my surprise to see the ticket dated mid August!!! :O

correct me if I am wrong, but even the accompanying form says they must notify me within 14 days of the committed offence???

How am I supposed to remember where I was or what I was doing on that day, let alone who was driving the vehicle???

Anybody (genuinely) know where I stand?

BAH

I would say its to old, im sure there is a time limit on the time from the offence to the ticket being issued....?

andykidman

Very simple answer to this,
Send them back a very polite letter explaining that they have to inform you within 14 days of any offence, they have failed to do so, therefor any conviction wont be valid.

Basically your in the clear and they can go **** themselves!!

OllyK

Check the post mark first though - if the thing gets lost in the post but they posted it within 14 days then I think it is still valid, have a look at Safespeed or ABD these may help.

Edcase

No, it even says on the letter 22nd Dec.

Chris J

Your car's not a company car is it, as the NIP would be sent to the company first, and so the NIP may have been served within 14 days.

Edcase

Nope, privately owned.

Now I think about it, I had only just moved to Bristol around then so the car may not have been registered here at the time of the alleged incident. Even so, 4 months is insane.

Fuzz

Ed,
When I finish work (4pm) you will have mail (assume you have a valid one in your profile). have some documents you might like to read from a past experience of mine, all stuff my solicitor wrote for me....


Laters

Andy

Edcase

Andy, much appreciated matey.

You cant beat hard facts in a situation like this.

Nathan L

YHM

[Edited by Nathan L - 12/23/2003 11:00:12 AM]

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

you have no worries mate,send it back with a nice letter,but do NOT sign anything.

Trouser @TSL

.. bummer m8.. hope you get it sorted.. Speak to Nathan.. he knows the law a bit

Chris L

Fuzz - can you forward your info onto me too. I'm in a similar situation. Would be interested to read anything from a solicitor on this subject.

Cheers
Chris

Nathan L

Lol @ Trouser.

A bit but not a lot

Mr.M

You lucky *******.

I'm still waiting for Humberside CPS to send the summons. Maybe they've deleted my information, as they're a complete bunch of muppets.

mutant_matt

Did it come registered post Ed?

Edcase

nope

Fuzz

Christ these documentas are confusing.. will be with you two shortly..


Andy

Carlos-Fandango

Fuzz

I too am in the same boat (care of the missus)I would be very greatful if you could mail me any good gen from soliciters etc.

Cheers

Carlos

hedgehog

Do not, under any circumstances, write back to them about anything without first contacting your solicitor. Don't ring them up, don't speak to them. That is the first mistake most people make. Every single word you write or say WILL be used against you and will make your defence more difficult. If you write and say "this NIP you sent me for speeding is out of time." they will take this as an admission that you WERE speeding. Believe me.

In this case, without knowing the details, I would say that you have a problem. In the case where you change details or address than the authorities have dispensation in law and so the 14 day rule doesn't apply. As it looks like you might have changed details in this time then it is likely they will use this and that, therefore, the NIP is in time.

Sorry to bring bad news but that is likely to be the case.

However, all is not lost and there are still lots of ways to defend your position. In the first instance keep the envelope and all the paperwork. The NIP must be sent at least 1st Class Post. If it is 2nd Class then you are home and dry, but you will need a solicitor who knows road traffic law.

The unsigned route is also still successful in some circumstances and Idris Francis has a very important test case in this area coming up early next year. His case may be useful for you and the details are:

Francis -v- Chief Constable of Hampshire

appeal re 20 oct 03, Aldershot Magistrates Court, case no 3608988

If you decide to defend then don't under any circumstances make ANY contact with the authorities before getting your solicitor on board. To do so is likely to mean that a lot of the money you spend on your defence is spent fixing the damage you have done to your own case.

Fuzz

Rather than mail everyone my driving licence history

Here is one document relating to the NIP problem I had.




Andy

Fuzz

Chris and Ed, You Have a more detailed reply in your inbox !


Andy

Edcase

Cheers guys.

MY01/555

i seem to be in the same situation,caught speeding in company van in august,notice sent to company but forwarded to office i have not been to for several years but opened by college in error,just wondering why company did not forward to my home address,is there a legal problem with this,any help FUZZ

Fuzz

Ed,
Address supplied in SN profile seems to be invalid ??

Just had an auto failure notification come through

Assume you got it ok Chris ?? (cc'd to you as well)


Andy

mutant_matt

The problem I have with that is that supposedly, the burden of proof is on you to prove you didn't get something sent by first class post. What a crock! How can you proove something DIDN'T happen FFS!!

I think it would be reasonable IMHO to argue that you cannot prove you were not served something and that it would be reasonable to expect the Prosecution to prove that they did indeed serve the NIP correctly.

There is also the track where you could ask your case be defered so that the ABD's case that is going to the EU Court of Human Rights which wants the premise that you are innocent until PROVEN guilty stands with regards to this type of "crime". Have a look at the ABD website for further info on this.

Good luck,

Matt.

[Edited by mutant_matt - 12/26/2003 12:47:18 PM]

Edcase

Andy - try ejbartlett@lineone.net

hedgehog

Assuming that the vehicle is in the name of your company and the NIP was addressed to them and not you personally then they should have filled in the NIP and returned it stating that you were driving. The fact that they didn't do this puts them in the wrong, not you, and it's down to them to sort the problem. You can not be done for not supplying something that you weren't asked for.

One possibility here, depending on the details of what is going on at present, is that the speeding offence may go out of time in 6 months. Now, this is a tricky one and there is some room for debate but you might get lucky on it. If this is the case then your company are liable for failure to provide your details but, even if they do finger you, you would not longer be in time for the speeding offence. You'd need a solicitor to examine the exact situation on this number.

Either way it's a pretty tricky one and depends on precise details to which we are not party. However, if the NIP went to the company then don't get involved until you get one addressed to you personally. At that stage then you need to think about fighting it and there are no shortage of successful defences currently available. As I mentioned earlier in this thread you also have the appeal by Idris coming up soon. Someone did mention the appeal to the ECHR but that situation is complex, requires you to be convicted and is likely to be costly so while I wouldn't rule it out the result isn't due for several years yet and it's probably not exactly what you want.

Good luck.

hedgehog

I know what you are saying Matt but the law says that if the police have proof they sent the NIP out then you are deemed to have received it. Common sense or the practical universe in which we live are in no way represented by the law.

In truth the police don't even really need that much proof, all they need is a PC to testify in court that he was there when the NIPs were processed and dispatched. They also usually have a computer record that the NIP was printed.

So, in truth, they hardly even have evidence that the NIP left the building, never mind that you got it through your door 3 days later.

Unfortunately this is a point of law and so is not open to discussion in court, if the police say they sent it then the law says you got it. End of story.

Is it any wonder that the law is no longer respected by the public and the police are viewed in a dim light?